Comparatively speaking
Oct. 8th, 2004 08:25 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
gwynOb. disclaimer: I'm sorry I haven't done a usage post in a really long time. I got grumpy about being picked on for the sample sentences I was writing, as if I was advocating bad writing skills like strings of adjectives or using adverbs instead of better description, yadda yadda. I'm not advocating using the samples as anything but mechanical devices: if you're going to use long strings of modifying words, for instance, this is how you do it right, or how you punctuate, etc. The samples are hard to write. They have to be totally correct, which is a challenge for me because I do not understand grammar very well (no, seriously, I don't -- I've just learned a lot in 22 years of editing); they have to embody the lesson well; they have to be easy to grasp for beginners; and they have to be fannishly correct, which can be a challenge as well because I'm trying to use as many fandoms as I can, and most of them aren't things I'm into. So, that's why I have been quiet. Just grumpy.
Anyway.
So, I was having a conversation with one of my fellow copyeditors here at the online magazine about how no one seems to know how to use comparatives anymore. I've noticed this a lot lately in the copy I get even from pro writers, and I sure see it a lot in online fandomland. I find it very strange that use of this part of speech seems to have disappeared almost completely. Even I find myself abusing it regularly.
What the hell am I talking about? Comparatives and superlatives are forms of those two types of modifying words, adjectives and adverbs, that I talked about in the last two posts. Basically, modifiers like adjectives and adverbs have three forms: the positive (which is really just the word in its natural state, such as good, bad, hard, careful, and so on); the comparative (which is where you're comparing it to something else -- so you'd have, of those words: better, worse, harder, more careful, etc.); and the superlative (which is the ultimate comparative form of that modifier: best, worst, hardest, most careful, and so on). You use the comparative form to compare a couple things (yeah, duh), and the superlative to compare three or more.
To form comparatives and superlatives of most one- and two-syllable adjectives, you'll use the endings -er and -est: strange, stranger, strangest; easy, easier, easiest; weird, weirder, weirdest. With longer adjectives or unusual words, though, you often use more and most: exiciting, more exciting, most exciting; bizarre, more bizarre, most bizarre. Some one-syllable adverbs will take the -er and -est ending (fast, faster, fastest), but longer adverbs and those that end in -ly will require more and most.
This was what actually started me noticing that people seemed to have completely lost the ability to remember the simple comparatives. Everyone I read seemed to be using more and most, even when there was a perfectly fine comparative right there. The guy I was copyediting the other day, an otherwise fine writer, said something like "what's more strange?" and I asked the editor, "Um, shouldn't that be stranger?" And I see this everywhere: in the past couple days I've come across "more calm" (calmer), "most weird" (weirdest), and so on. And this doesn't even count the times I've done it when I've been writing casually here in my own LJ. Yeesh capeesh. The thing is, the correct form to use is easily available to us, if we are confused or it fails the "it looks funny" test: the comparative form will be listed in the dictionary under the positive form of the word. So if you're wondering if freaky should be most freaky or freakiest (it should be freakiest), just look up freaky in the dictionary and voila, you have your answer. (As always, class, remember that the American Heritage 4 is online at bartleby.com.)
There are a couple of irregular ones to throw in the mix, just to confuse everyone, but I've noticed these rarely seem to be used incorrectly (which is also why I am stumped at how the rest of the population seems to have lost the ability to do comparatives): Good, better, and best; bad, worse, worst; and badly, worse, worst are the odd men out in this game.
When you're using compartives and superlatives, you don't want to double the fun. If you're got an -er or -est on an adjective or adverb, don't also use more or most.
There's a step beyond comparatives and superlatives called absolute concepts. Words like unique or perfect are good examples. Generally folks will tell you that something is unique or it isn't, something is perfect or it's not, and so on, so you can't qualify these words. You would say, "That's a unique car" but not "That's the most unique car I've ever seen"; or "The urn was the only priceless one Willow had ever handled" rather than "It was the most priceless urn Willow had handled." Every year, my friend![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
black_bird_777 and I lose our rag when the airline inevitably announces our LA flight to Escapade with "We have a really full flight" or "Our flight is very, very full" because... dude, it's either full or it's not. But I also think people get a little carried away with this rule, because you can compare a little with absolutes, and sometimes people scare others away from using comparative language with words like unique when that's not totally appropriate. You might not say "most unique" but there's nothing inherently wrong with "I've never seen such a unique wand. Where did you get it?" It's a matter of degree and where you're qualifying the absolute concept word; don't get too scared off by the grammar Nazis about this one. Use absolutes with caution, but don't get paralyzed, either.
Anyway.
So, I was having a conversation with one of my fellow copyeditors here at the online magazine about how no one seems to know how to use comparatives anymore. I've noticed this a lot lately in the copy I get even from pro writers, and I sure see it a lot in online fandomland. I find it very strange that use of this part of speech seems to have disappeared almost completely. Even I find myself abusing it regularly.
What the hell am I talking about? Comparatives and superlatives are forms of those two types of modifying words, adjectives and adverbs, that I talked about in the last two posts. Basically, modifiers like adjectives and adverbs have three forms: the positive (which is really just the word in its natural state, such as good, bad, hard, careful, and so on); the comparative (which is where you're comparing it to something else -- so you'd have, of those words: better, worse, harder, more careful, etc.); and the superlative (which is the ultimate comparative form of that modifier: best, worst, hardest, most careful, and so on). You use the comparative form to compare a couple things (yeah, duh), and the superlative to compare three or more.
Which brand of stake isbestbetter for killing vampires?
Though Hermione and Ron are good, Harry is themoremost skilled of the young wizards.
They thought Spike was definitely thestrangeststranger of the two vampires.
Dom was thefasterfastest of the racers that night.
To form comparatives and superlatives of most one- and two-syllable adjectives, you'll use the endings -er and -est: strange, stranger, strangest; easy, easier, easiest; weird, weirder, weirdest. With longer adjectives or unusual words, though, you often use more and most: exiciting, more exciting, most exciting; bizarre, more bizarre, most bizarre. Some one-syllable adverbs will take the -er and -est ending (fast, faster, fastest), but longer adverbs and those that end in -ly will require more and most.
This was what actually started me noticing that people seemed to have completely lost the ability to remember the simple comparatives. Everyone I read seemed to be using more and most, even when there was a perfectly fine comparative right there. The guy I was copyediting the other day, an otherwise fine writer, said something like "what's more strange?" and I asked the editor, "Um, shouldn't that be stranger?" And I see this everywhere: in the past couple days I've come across "more calm" (calmer), "most weird" (weirdest), and so on. And this doesn't even count the times I've done it when I've been writing casually here in my own LJ. Yeesh capeesh. The thing is, the correct form to use is easily available to us, if we are confused or it fails the "it looks funny" test: the comparative form will be listed in the dictionary under the positive form of the word. So if you're wondering if freaky should be most freaky or freakiest (it should be freakiest), just look up freaky in the dictionary and voila, you have your answer. (As always, class, remember that the American Heritage 4 is online at bartleby.com.)
There are a couple of irregular ones to throw in the mix, just to confuse everyone, but I've noticed these rarely seem to be used incorrectly (which is also why I am stumped at how the rest of the population seems to have lost the ability to do comparatives): Good, better, and best; bad, worse, worst; and badly, worse, worst are the odd men out in this game.
When you're using compartives and superlatives, you don't want to double the fun. If you're got an -er or -est on an adjective or adverb, don't also use more or most.
Ezra wore themostprettiest waistcoat they'd ever seen.
Doyle was one of themostdeadliest marksmen on the CI-5 force.
That was definitely one of themorescarier planets Jack had ever visited.
There's a step beyond comparatives and superlatives called absolute concepts. Words like unique or perfect are good examples. Generally folks will tell you that something is unique or it isn't, something is perfect or it's not, and so on, so you can't qualify these words. You would say, "That's a unique car" but not "That's the most unique car I've ever seen"; or "The urn was the only priceless one Willow had ever handled" rather than "It was the most priceless urn Willow had handled." Every year, my friend
black_bird_777 and I lose our rag when the airline inevitably announces our LA flight to Escapade with "We have a really full flight" or "Our flight is very, very full" because... dude, it's either full or it's not. But I also think people get a little carried away with this rule, because you can compare a little with absolutes, and sometimes people scare others away from using comparative language with words like unique when that's not totally appropriate. You might not say "most unique" but there's nothing inherently wrong with "I've never seen such a unique wand. Where did you get it?" It's a matter of degree and where you're qualifying the absolute concept word; don't get too scared off by the grammar Nazis about this one. Use absolutes with caution, but don't get paralyzed, either.
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no subject
Date: 2004-10-08 10:21 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-10-08 10:35 am (UTC)With the misuse, I really think it's related to speech patterns evolving--like, Valley Speak or something moving into the mainstream via everything from Fast Times at Ridgemont High, to that movie with Keanu Reeves as a time traveler that I'm forgetting the name of, to the way people talk on Buffy--it was different and noticable when you first heard people talking that way, but now it's just the way people talk, and so you don't notice you're doing it when you're writing. Does that make sense?
no subject
Date: 2004-10-08 11:26 am (UTC)though i think this may be one topic i'mn not too bad at, b/c i don't think german has compound comparatives and superlatives, so i immediately try to think of the proper one...what is the rule when to use more and most, though? if it becomes too awkward, if the adjective is already at three syllablkes, foreign and adopted words??? or just mostly arbitrarily?
no subject
Date: 2004-10-08 11:28 am (UTC)LOL! One of my airline favs is "We will now be pre-boarding those people with children (etc.)" Man, how can you 'preboard'? You're either boarding or you're not. Why can't they just say 'We'll be allowing those people with children to board at this time?' What's so freaking hard about that?
no subject
Date: 2004-10-08 11:36 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-10-08 12:30 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-10-08 12:35 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-10-08 05:36 pm (UTC)I think people should be grateful that this cool, easily accessible information is available on their friendslist. I recently read one of
And thanks for the TFatF, M7, and Pitch Black references. *Bounce*
no subject
Date: 2004-10-22 09:33 am (UTC)Oh, and "hi", as I've just friended you! I read your "Squandering Spike" essay *years* ago, before I even knew about LJ, and I was going thru my "favorites" links, looked at your essay again and happily realized I could friend you and see what other stuff you've been up to. So hello!