The dynamic duo
Oct. 23rd, 2003 10:26 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
gwynMy neighbor has put in a new porch light that I think is being used to signal aliens in Tau Ceti. Last night, I lay there trying to sleep with the effect of having a spotlight on me through my blinds, knowing that the curtains I’d put off making for so long are going to have to become priority number 1, especially in light of the fact that if I end up feeling all fangirly and squeey, I will never get any sleep whatsoever.
I know a lot of people are really unhappy about Spike on Angel, and somehow I feel like I’m betraying the sisterhood or something, but damn, I had tons of fun with this ep. It was good old fashioned horror, and I like that because the show frequently doesn’t really go back to its horror roots enough for my taste. Nothing really scares me (except that fast-edit Jacob’s Ladder head thing... brrr), but I just like the feel of the horror, and I think Steven DeKnight did a fantastic job of building atmosphere and, more importantly, character. It’s clear from the ending that they’re keeping Pavayne (Pavaine??) around so that they may be able to use him in the future, and I like that — he’s used all these people before to do his evil deeds, now he’s being trapped in his own hell, without any ability to will a change, and is at W&H’s mercy. Yummy justice.
Which gets into what I liked about Angel in this episode. At first I reacted badly to his statement to Fred that “some people just can’t be saved.” But as the ep wore on, and we had that lovely scene with the two of them (god, I loved Spike calling him Liam in that offhanded way, and Angel admitting he liked William’s poetry, and Spike’s immediate calling of his bad taste in such things), I understood that he wasn’t just talking about Spike. I was surprised when so many people acted stunned that Angel willingly killed the special ops team leader in the opener, but this intensity and willingness to do the bad things that have to be done has always been there in Angel. Yes, right now, he’s blinded by his resentment of Spike, all his old passions and prejudices, but he also knows how like that dark part of himself Spike is, and it scares him. Spike is like Angelus with a little bit of a leash; he’s not bogged down in the guilt and the misery the way Angel is, so he’s freer to act on impulses, and Angel doesn’t trust that because he’s had such a damn hard time of keeping his own impulses in check. Their conversation before it got funny was just plain tragic, and a lovely insight into both of their characters — Spike asking questions, Angel with the answers, and neither of them happy.
The friendship between Spike and Fred really touches me; it’s nice to see someone who understands the value beneath his rough exterior, and I like that she sees him as more than others think she does. Her backtalk to Angel and Eve felt in keeping with the harder edge Fred is having to develop. Although Spike is flirty with her, it’s not unlike his flirtiness with Faith on Buffy — a kind of enjoyment in a connection, someone having fun. He’s filled with despair, but he is, after all, Spike, and so he’s going to flirt and be suggestive because that’s what he does. Fred gets that; she’s not doing this because she thinks if she makes him corporeal he’ll be her vampire lover. Her role right now is to be the heart of the group, the emotional core, and she cares for Spike because she cares. Enough people have mentioned that Spike didn’t even really pay attention to her when she was naked in the shower, and I think that’s a pretty big clue as to how he values her — not to mention the way he smiled when she told him he should be saved at the end. It reminds me a bit of Spike’s friendship with Dawn in S5 of Buffy, and I like that a lot.
As a villain, Pavayne was much more enjoyable than most — I find the using or misusing of people, that kind of macabre manipulation, to be scarier than just blood and guts. His fey manner and smug cruelty were nicely icky, and I loved how Spike finally understood it and used it to his advantage. What I liked best about this ep was the setup for future eps — though ME so often falls down on this, when they don’t follow through with excellent setups — in that they’ve established a cool concept (that it’s the will or desire that controls this; that hell is of your own making) that could be used in all manner of ways. They also established a very bleak truth that Angel believes — that the good deeds done with the soul mean nothing in the face of the evil deeds — and by him telling Spike about that, I wonder if they’re not setting it up in a way that gives Spike the chance to prove that wrong. While he seemed accepting of that fatalistic view, it could be that Spike and Angel together may be part of what changes that possible reality. Not to mention being a nice insight into Angel’s reluctance to believe in anything hopeful.
This episode used one of my favorite tricks, something I haven’t seen in a long time on Angel, and miss from Buffy terribly: Those big melodramatic expositions that are immediately deflated by something pedestrian or obvious. I always enjoyed Spike’s melodramatic asides, where he’d go on and on about the terrible things that will befall someone and then stumbles into an open grave, or gets hit by a taser. Here, it was fun to have Wes going on and on about “ a volcano in South America, in the deepest, darkest jungle” only to be interrupted by Gunn with the practical idea. This always works best, of course, when it’s a British character making dire pronouncements (Giles was especially good at it) or fearsome expositions, and then an American character pops up with the prosaic and simple “Or hey! We could go upstairs!”
I’ve seen a few complaints about the basement stuff — but it never felt to me as if they were dragging Spike back to the basement for the same reasons as they have before. Here, it felt as if they were of course going for the metaphorical connection to hell, to the beneath, but also? Basements are creepy. They just are, especially when they’re dark and long and full of empty rooms with ooky noises. And a W&H basement is going to be creepy to the tenth power, as we saw at the end. I’m disappointed Spike didn’t get to be corporeal, but I expected him to give that up for Fred’s life. It’s who he is, soul or no soul. And Angel is confronted once again with the concept that the Spike he knew has changed, and so there’s a great deal to mine in that for the future. This felt like a solid episode all around, with tons of funny lines and ideas, one that answers a number of questions, but that also sets up a great deal for the future.
I dunno. Everywhere I look, everyone’s pissing and moaning about how crappy it all is, how they hate all of it, etc. While I miss my pairing and the old Spike I liked, I feel happy to have some good entertainment, to be able to see my boys on screen week to week (I don’t really have anything besides Angel that’s new, anyways). Will they always make me happy? Hardly. But right now it seems as if they’re trying to find new stories to develop, new relationships to build. I feel very out of place, and the negative overwhelms me to some degree, but right now I’m enjoying it. And the preview made me laugh for next week (plus, I love to see that notion put paid to again that sex for Angel doesn’t equal loss of soul, that it’s a moment of true happiness and an orgasm isn’t really a synonym for that; they’ve touched lightly on it with the “oh, Angel!” of the Furies or whoever those babes were in second season, and with Darla), so... I feel content, when I try to keep the waves of dissatisfaction and anger out of my little protective bubble. I’m guess I’m a loon, but at least I’m not a grumpy loon.
I know a lot of people are really unhappy about Spike on Angel, and somehow I feel like I’m betraying the sisterhood or something, but damn, I had tons of fun with this ep. It was good old fashioned horror, and I like that because the show frequently doesn’t really go back to its horror roots enough for my taste. Nothing really scares me (except that fast-edit Jacob’s Ladder head thing... brrr), but I just like the feel of the horror, and I think Steven DeKnight did a fantastic job of building atmosphere and, more importantly, character. It’s clear from the ending that they’re keeping Pavayne (Pavaine??) around so that they may be able to use him in the future, and I like that — he’s used all these people before to do his evil deeds, now he’s being trapped in his own hell, without any ability to will a change, and is at W&H’s mercy. Yummy justice.
Which gets into what I liked about Angel in this episode. At first I reacted badly to his statement to Fred that “some people just can’t be saved.” But as the ep wore on, and we had that lovely scene with the two of them (god, I loved Spike calling him Liam in that offhanded way, and Angel admitting he liked William’s poetry, and Spike’s immediate calling of his bad taste in such things), I understood that he wasn’t just talking about Spike. I was surprised when so many people acted stunned that Angel willingly killed the special ops team leader in the opener, but this intensity and willingness to do the bad things that have to be done has always been there in Angel. Yes, right now, he’s blinded by his resentment of Spike, all his old passions and prejudices, but he also knows how like that dark part of himself Spike is, and it scares him. Spike is like Angelus with a little bit of a leash; he’s not bogged down in the guilt and the misery the way Angel is, so he’s freer to act on impulses, and Angel doesn’t trust that because he’s had such a damn hard time of keeping his own impulses in check. Their conversation before it got funny was just plain tragic, and a lovely insight into both of their characters — Spike asking questions, Angel with the answers, and neither of them happy.
The friendship between Spike and Fred really touches me; it’s nice to see someone who understands the value beneath his rough exterior, and I like that she sees him as more than others think she does. Her backtalk to Angel and Eve felt in keeping with the harder edge Fred is having to develop. Although Spike is flirty with her, it’s not unlike his flirtiness with Faith on Buffy — a kind of enjoyment in a connection, someone having fun. He’s filled with despair, but he is, after all, Spike, and so he’s going to flirt and be suggestive because that’s what he does. Fred gets that; she’s not doing this because she thinks if she makes him corporeal he’ll be her vampire lover. Her role right now is to be the heart of the group, the emotional core, and she cares for Spike because she cares. Enough people have mentioned that Spike didn’t even really pay attention to her when she was naked in the shower, and I think that’s a pretty big clue as to how he values her — not to mention the way he smiled when she told him he should be saved at the end. It reminds me a bit of Spike’s friendship with Dawn in S5 of Buffy, and I like that a lot.
As a villain, Pavayne was much more enjoyable than most — I find the using or misusing of people, that kind of macabre manipulation, to be scarier than just blood and guts. His fey manner and smug cruelty were nicely icky, and I loved how Spike finally understood it and used it to his advantage. What I liked best about this ep was the setup for future eps — though ME so often falls down on this, when they don’t follow through with excellent setups — in that they’ve established a cool concept (that it’s the will or desire that controls this; that hell is of your own making) that could be used in all manner of ways. They also established a very bleak truth that Angel believes — that the good deeds done with the soul mean nothing in the face of the evil deeds — and by him telling Spike about that, I wonder if they’re not setting it up in a way that gives Spike the chance to prove that wrong. While he seemed accepting of that fatalistic view, it could be that Spike and Angel together may be part of what changes that possible reality. Not to mention being a nice insight into Angel’s reluctance to believe in anything hopeful.
This episode used one of my favorite tricks, something I haven’t seen in a long time on Angel, and miss from Buffy terribly: Those big melodramatic expositions that are immediately deflated by something pedestrian or obvious. I always enjoyed Spike’s melodramatic asides, where he’d go on and on about the terrible things that will befall someone and then stumbles into an open grave, or gets hit by a taser. Here, it was fun to have Wes going on and on about “ a volcano in South America, in the deepest, darkest jungle” only to be interrupted by Gunn with the practical idea. This always works best, of course, when it’s a British character making dire pronouncements (Giles was especially good at it) or fearsome expositions, and then an American character pops up with the prosaic and simple “Or hey! We could go upstairs!”
I’ve seen a few complaints about the basement stuff — but it never felt to me as if they were dragging Spike back to the basement for the same reasons as they have before. Here, it felt as if they were of course going for the metaphorical connection to hell, to the beneath, but also? Basements are creepy. They just are, especially when they’re dark and long and full of empty rooms with ooky noises. And a W&H basement is going to be creepy to the tenth power, as we saw at the end. I’m disappointed Spike didn’t get to be corporeal, but I expected him to give that up for Fred’s life. It’s who he is, soul or no soul. And Angel is confronted once again with the concept that the Spike he knew has changed, and so there’s a great deal to mine in that for the future. This felt like a solid episode all around, with tons of funny lines and ideas, one that answers a number of questions, but that also sets up a great deal for the future.
I dunno. Everywhere I look, everyone’s pissing and moaning about how crappy it all is, how they hate all of it, etc. While I miss my pairing and the old Spike I liked, I feel happy to have some good entertainment, to be able to see my boys on screen week to week (I don’t really have anything besides Angel that’s new, anyways). Will they always make me happy? Hardly. But right now it seems as if they’re trying to find new stories to develop, new relationships to build. I feel very out of place, and the negative overwhelms me to some degree, but right now I’m enjoying it. And the preview made me laugh for next week (plus, I love to see that notion put paid to again that sex for Angel doesn’t equal loss of soul, that it’s a moment of true happiness and an orgasm isn’t really a synonym for that; they’ve touched lightly on it with the “oh, Angel!” of the Furies or whoever those babes were in second season, and with Darla), so... I feel content, when I try to keep the waves of dissatisfaction and anger out of my little protective bubble. I’m guess I’m a loon, but at least I’m not a grumpy loon.
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no subject
Date: 2003-10-23 10:42 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2003-10-23 10:51 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2003-10-23 10:52 am (UTC)Everywhere I look, everyone’s pissing and moaning about how crappy it all is, how they hate all of it, etc.
Interesting. I've seen lots of posts saying that people are seeing lots of posts about people being upset, but I'm not actually seeing many posts at all with the negativity. *shrug* I do admit that I was in the Camp O' Negativity last week, but I'm right back with the Big Love with this episode. Whatever problems they had with the first three episodes (technical, creative, or other), I think they've nailed down with "Hellbound".
no subject
Date: 2003-10-23 12:56 pm (UTC)I'm not in any way trying to be PollyAnna Sunshinepants. That's not my normal personality, I have a BIG critical faculty that I inflict on people when the least expect it. But I also think that Angel has been very up and down in quality over the years, and right now, it's working okay for me. I didn't enjoy the werewolf stuff that much and the ep felt weak, but... this is how Angel's always been for me. Sometimes I just think there's a lot of people who want to be unhappy and this is giving them lots of ammunition to do so. I don't even read lists anymore; I don't have enough protective clothing to make it work.
I have the same neighbors
Date: 2003-10-23 12:53 pm (UTC)And also, I had the same thought about Fred=Dawn, and how Spike was fond of people even pre-soul, Buffy, Joyce, Dawn, Fred. He just likes girls.
And as for Shower Scene Fred, I find it rather charming of Angel (and Whedonesque in general) that they're far more likely to have gratuitous skin on the boys of the scene. Shirtless Beefcake Angel, and Naked Naked Spike.
Hee.
Re: I have the same neighbors
Date: 2003-10-23 01:20 pm (UTC)Re: I have the same neighbors
Date: 2003-10-24 05:14 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2003-10-23 12:57 pm (UTC)I loved the Spike and Fred interaction - beautifully done by both actors but I thought AA's line delivery of "you're worth saving" was nicely underplayed. It could have come across very sappy.
I've enjoyed the melodramatic buildups too and how they use the music to suck you in. When Spike was giving his "my enemy Wesley" speech last week, the music really sold it.
A couple of things I noticed about Angel. He's incredibly disillusioned and disaffected (more so than usual). It looks like the minutae of running an organization is getting to him. Also, he looked a little worried about Gunn's connection with the conduit.
I had a big "yayyyy" moment for Spike when he willed his clothes back on. Very nice to see that after the poor guy's had to be nude so often.
My favorite Spike line of the night "Rousting out a nest of evil retirement plans?"
no subject
Date: 2003-10-23 01:15 pm (UTC)Yeah -- I'm actually interested to see where this goes. The very fact that he mentioned that you do all this good stuff with the soul, but then you end up running an evil law firm... there was something so fatalistic, so defeated, almost, that it belied his statement at the end of Conviction that they have opportunities. So I think they're setting up a conflict, with Spike as a representation of one side, and possibly Gunn on the other. But, then, I *like* this new Gunn, much more than before. (Especially thinking of Spike taunting him in the shower. Sigh.)
My favorite Spike line of the night "Rousting out a nest of evil retirement plans?"
I loved that. But I think I really lost it on the "put away your martyr, Mahatma" line.
no subject
Date: 2003-10-23 04:04 pm (UTC)I will see them when they start airing the UK, whenever that is, but - whereas I have watched Angel's fourth season out of duty, yawning all the way with only one eye open - I'm looking forward to see Spike and how the series will adjust to the new situation.
I am personally just happy to see the boys on the screen, as you said.
I don't read much Buffyverse fiction (too little time, and the series is/was good enough to keep me satisfied), but I noticed myself browsing with nonchalance for Spike fiction when the series ended...just having him on Angel will lift my spirits :)
Weird enough, I bought all the Angel tapes (though won't buy fourth season, can't stand Jasmine and feel Connor's potential was mis-used) but have no Buffy - need some Spike to watch now and then.
I always liked Angel The Series for its constant renewal, results notwithstanding - I am looking forward to see how they will manage, and really enjoying hearing your thoughts :)
no subject
Date: 2003-10-23 04:42 pm (UTC)I like the Fred/Spike friendship too, and also wish there were more women on the show. It does seem a little fixed -- Spike relates well to women, she's the only woman, therefore they get along. I have a feeling that the friendship could be a very good one, but I hope they don't have a romance, it would be hard to reconcile with my Spuffy love (even knowing that will never happen).
Having Spike give up his chance (for now) at becoming corporeal to save Fred was a nice touch, too. All in all, this ep had a lot more dignified, worthwhile Spike moments, not just let's all laugh at the silly ghost bits. Quite a lot of fun.
no subject
Date: 2003-10-23 08:42 pm (UTC)This season is the first time I've ever really liked Fred, and I'm enjoying her a *lot*. I think it's because of her role in the lab, and doing actual scientific work. Of course, how could I not like someone who's showing compassion for Spike?
The big punctured melodramatic moment I loved:
(Music builds) Fred: "He's slipping into Hell."
(Pause, music peaks)
Gunn: "Kinda figured."
Wes: "'Course."
Gunn: "Where else would he be headed?"
Hilarious, but sad, too.
The *only* thing that bothers me even a little about the whole non-corporeal being thing -- and this is across the board, not just in AtS: How does a non-corporal being's feet manage to, um, *stand on floors*? In theory, gliding, or something, not walking, right? No one ever addresses this, and I was kinda disappointed that it wasn't here, either.
Sorry about the neighbor's new light. That sucks. Hope you get some light-blocking blinds/curtains up ASAP. Hey, I'll trade you for the newspaper delivery guy who, at 2:45am, lines the paper at my door like he's Brett Favre.
no subject
Date: 2003-10-24 08:53 am (UTC)I loved that exchange, too, about hell -- and you know, I forgot to mention one thing that I really, really enjoyed in this ep: the mystic/medium. She was freaking hilarious, with her "I have Pilates at the crack of why am I up at this hour" and her smartass California girl nastiness... she was just tons of fun. Made a good death, too.
no subject
Date: 2003-10-24 08:01 pm (UTC)I guess it's bothering me a little more than I thought because, unhappily, I'm envisioning a whole season of this sort of stuff. Sigh. Though, with anything Joss-related, I can forgive a *lot*, as long as I get other goodies in return. I'm still disappointed, though, because only Joss and Stanley Kubrick have ever done outer space correctly (i.e. with no freakin' sounds).
no subject
Date: 2003-10-23 10:20 pm (UTC)And second. I agree with pretty much everything you just said. Especially all the character stuff, and Spike's relationships to Angel and Fred. I thought Pavayne was a bit anti-climactic once we actually found out who/what he was. He was scarier to me when my imagination was running wild with it. But I still thought it was a very good episode. The first one this season that I thought was really well done. And I'm hoping now that they should be past the huge amounts of exposition, this is a sign of good things to come. So...no negativity here at the moment. :)
no subject
Date: 2003-10-24 08:58 am (UTC)I think you hit the nail on the head regarding the villian -- he was creepier in theory than in practice, but I've found that is the case for me with all horror stuff, so I was okay with that. Villians are always better with mystique. ;-) But one thing I saw a lot of griping about that didn't bother me was that the spooks weren't related to Spike's past -- I actually liked that everyone taunted him in a familiar way, playing on his guilt, until he figured out that this really had nothing to do with him at all and that he would be one more pawn in Pavayne's game. You just do not make Spike a pawn, and that's when he stopped it. Nice touch, to my eyes!
no subject
Date: 2003-10-24 07:53 pm (UTC)'cause, um, say it with me: We've. Seen. It. Before. When he was re-souled, for example. And it was done with Angel, too, IIRC. So, those people bitching about it should shut the hell up. But that's just my opinion. ;-)
no subject
Date: 2003-10-26 10:49 am (UTC)Hmm, I see my pillow fort is holding up well. I haven't seen much negativity, thank goodness. I'm really interested in the stories they're telling, and at how many possibilities there are for the rest of the season. It doesn't even matter all that much to me whether I find each episode the height of enjoyable entertainment, as long as there is some nice content in there to sink my teeth into.
I'm pretty easy to please, I guess. And I like it that way. ;)
no subject
Date: 2003-10-27 11:38 am (UTC)I think I just know and expect that none of my shows will go the way I want them to, so I just go along for the ride and try to take what I can for it. I'm not always satisfied (witness my hatred of Pod!Giles), and the characters may not develop as I want them to (Spike with soul), but I'm still happy to pay my ticket, and then write fanfic when I want to do something different. ;-) Maybe I just have low expectations.