Again with the pondering...

[gwyn]

I'm reading con reports and it's been really interesting hearing the wildly different takes on things. Sometimes frustrating, too. And often really fucking funny.

Stuff I've been thinking about in no particular order:

1. People! Stop telling everyone to not rent Equilibrium if they liked the vid in the premier show przed's "No Fear No Hate..." ! Yes, it's a cheese-fest. The cheesiest, in fact. There's not enough cheese in Wisconsin to beat the cheese in this movie. But it doesn't matter! It's fun! Stupid and fun and has a large collection of the pretty: Christian Bale half naked through much of the movie, Sean Bean, William Fichtner, Taye Diggs, Angus Macfadyen, and Sean Pertwee. Plus that guy from John Doe. So, like, who cares that it's not a good movie? It's also really good-looking! It's totally worth a rental, and I wish people would stop discouraging everyone as though fans don't watch and love bad movies. I have rarely had as much fun as I did at this movie. This is what fandom is all about, if you ask me -- if you can't appreciate a good bad movie for the massive quantities of pretty, then what *can* you appreciate? Check your brain at the door, and have fun with the gun katas, the Adorable Puppy of Redemption, and large helpings of calcium-rich cheese.

2. I am starting to understand that I share almost no tastes with other people in fandom, because I like all kinds of music and have no trouble with vids in fandoms I don't care for. One of the things I've noticed consistently in some con reports is that people disliked vids because they can't stand a music style (hip-hop definitely came under fire most, followed by show tunes [see below]) or because they have a history of liking that song chosen for that vid. That latter one flummoxed me -- there've only been a few vids where I felt like my personal devotion to a song made it harder to appreciate the vid, but I have never rejected a vid solely because I loved the song (usually the vid just didn't connect with me enough to make me put aside my personal attachment). So that left me a little bewildered, but it seems prevalent, so clearly I'm the one who's out of step. I'm curious about why it prevents people from enjoying a vid? What makes it so hard to overcome?

3. Related to that, I have always loved everything -- there really isn't a musical style I don't like, though of course there are individual artists or sub-styles that I may not enjoy. But I discovered this weekend that show tunes for songvids will kill me right at the opening note. The Farscape vid made me want to stick chopsticks in my ears, and the Hornblower vid was one of the most agonizingly awful of the con (and I'm glad that many of my friends thought it was howlingly, parodically funny, but I couldn't join in the mocking laughter). I don't know why, but show tunes just do not seem to work with vids, to my ears and eyes, and I have yet to see a vid that uses a show tune and doesn't make me want to kill myself. So if I learned anything this weekend, it was that me and show tune vids are unmixy things. (ETA Okay, there is one vid that uses show tunes that DOES work for me: Razzle Dazzle from Chicago (the movie) for Star Trek, by Killa and T. Jonesy. It's effing brilliant and makes me forget how much I loathed the song by its sheer unadulterated brilliance!)

4. Why would people go to a vidding con if they're not that into vids? I mean, I get seeing your friends, especially if that's the only con they go to. But... if you know it's a con devoted totally to vids, and you're not either a vid fan or a vidder, why take up the membership space? Why spend the money, and then disparage vids in general in a con report afterwards and tell people you're not that into vids and are all now vidded out and never cared that much in the first place? WTF? I think of the people who might not get to go because of a membership cap, and it mystifies me why someone would go to something like this if they either don't like vids, or only want to see vids in one or two narrow fandoms, and everything else earns their disparaging disdain. Do. Not. Get. It.

Comments

[coffeeandink.livejournal.com]

I don't know why, but show tunes just do not seem to work with vids, to my ears and eyes, and I have yet to see a vid that uses a show tune and doesn't make me want to kill myself.

Not even "Razzle Dazzle"?

And your comment didn't sound at all defensive! It's just going to be a while before I can answer it, because it's not the kind of quick thing I can dash off at work (and I'm working late tonight), and because I probably should download and rewatch the vid first. Your questions were entirely legitimate and deserve a thoughtful response.

It's also possible I was on special crack during the beginning of the vid show, because my reaction to VH doesn't seem to match *anyone* else's.

[movies-michelle.livejournal.com]

Thank you for mentioning the "Equilibrium" bitching. It's been driving me nuts! Go for the pretty, stay for the gun katas! Does no one appreciate shallow beauty anymore?!

Okay, done shouting.

[gwyn-r.livejournal.com]

Oh my god. You found it -- the one! Okay, I will edit my post, because yes, Razzle Dazzle is perfection. I also thought of Impossible Dream (the Monty Python Holy Grail vid), but that one still kind of makes me wish it were over reallyfast. But RD, yes. Absotively. Thank you!

[sdwolfpup.livejournal.com]

I completely agree with you on #2. I'll listen to anything once, and when I like a song I generally like a vid better that way. And point #4 just irritates the hell out of me. Grrr, people.

[kassrachel.livejournal.com]

Your item 4 baffles me, too. I can imaging wanting to see friends, and therefore getting a room at the hotel and hanging out in the consuite and/or being sociable with people all weekend even if one had no interest in any of the panels or vidshows. But why take up a membership slot if one doesn't enjoy what the con's about? Bizarre. *shrug*

[thran.livejournal.com]

Equilibrium! I mean, how could you not love the gun kata? And Christian Bale dripping style (even when fully dressed.) If nothing else, that movie is full of teh pretty - hot men + beautiful visual design.

I wish I coulda gone to Vividcon this time - I went last year and loved it all.

[/vidjunkie]

[cy-girl.livejournal.com]

I've added Equilibrium to my Netflix queue. "Half naked Christian Bale" sparked my interest but Sean Bean was what closed the deal for me.

Please feel free to rec movies with pretty men any day.

BTW - I was thrilled to see that Netflix has the Sharpe's series. No video store in my town has them.

[permetaform]

1. Hee, well, I subscribe to the "SHINY!" philsophy in movies, I would rather the movie left the romance lightly sketched and the action filled in deeply, 'cause movies are *supposed* to be visual. If I wanted a *story* I'd read a book or a fanfic, gimme the shiny *any* day, and I'll fill in the story myself. =D

Then again, not all people are like this, and I think that would be why they dislike Equilibrium, and also? It's competing with The Matrix, which came out around the same time.

And dude, that was an utterly gratuitous use of puppy. It's like...like...showing Bale half naked for a lot of the movie, and okay, I think I see you point tho.

IT WAS STILL GRATUITOUS. =P

2&3. Well, I don't know if this applies, but I have the same reaction to pure country songs or emo. 'Cause really, if the only thing going for the song is the meaning behind the lyrics (ie. the vocals suck too) then my brains shuts down wailing "NOOOOOOOOOOO!" and it'll take aLOT to drag me willingly back into the vid again. (The exception that proves the rule is sisabet's "Last Stand" vid.)

With rap, people have been saying that they can't understand the lyrics and they grok on vids on an emotional level mostly through the lyrics...though that doesn't affect me any 'cause I can't hear *any* lyrics unless I concentrate hard at it or it's exceptionally clear.

As for the favorite song thing, I think it might be cause people then have strong emotional connotations with the song, and if the vidder is trying to throw a different interpretation on the song then the disconnect will take some time getting past.

4. seeing your friends, exactly. =) that's like saying to a chocolate lover, "I get that some people like chocolate, but why would you go to Fisherman's Wharf?" (Fisherman's Wharf is near Ghiradelli Square, temple of all things chocolate)

[par-avion.livejournal.com]

On songs you can't get past...

I was surprised to hear a few people comment about the Dar Williams song, because I think it was a brilliant connection to make, and the fact that some people knew the song and realized the fandom for the vid was Contant and thought OMG! that's *perfect* and DLed and recced the vid is how I first found out about it. (DLing random vids is scary, at least in Buffy fandom.) And, of course, the vid lives up to it. It's not just great concept...bad execution. Of course, I'm a fan of the movie, which helps.

But there is one (and only one) vid that I can't get past the song for. Fragile (Sting) is possibly my favorite song, ever. I've been known to make scary drunk frat boys shut the fuck up at a concert because they were bitching during the song that he wasn't playing more Police songs and, dude, it's 1999 and The Police broke up, get over it, and let me listen to the best song ever written!

That song already has intense secondary and tertiary meanings for me and, despite the fact that favorite song + favorite fandom should = awesome vid! I just can't get past it. I can't even watch the whole vid.

[mlyn.livejournal.com]

Hey, you. I was thinking of you on the way into work this morning, because I was listening to Ella Fitzgerald and giggling my butt off at all the F&F vid ideas I was getting. I think my favorite (though probably not as workable as some of the other ideas) is "The Gentleman is a Dope" for Dom/Vince from Brian's perspective. Especially because Vince would be the girl, Brian would be the jealous singer of the song, and Dom would be the Dope ("just a big lug you'd like to hug").

Wanna hear more? *Wiggles eyebrows*

[przed.livejournal.com]

People! Stop telling everyone to not rent Equilibrium...

I half to admit, I've been half-cringing every time I see this vid mentioned as a recruiter vid. I mean, I love the movie, or I wouldn't have made the vid, but it's not great art. And I've said as much to a few people who've left me comments about the vid.

Then again, fab cast, half-naked Bale, stunning visuals, lovely (if improbable) fight choreography, and yeah, just a big bunch of hokey, stupid, angsty fun. So, rent away, people.

[deejay.livejournal.com]

The patented 'Equilibrium' bitch-slapping Pas de Deux With Guns scene at the end is well worth the price of admission/video-rental in itself (she sez without a single shred of bias - oh, no, not a solitary one).

[morgandawn.livejournal.com]

we loved the moive - for the same cheesy goodness gwyn describes. Nearly peed in our pants laughing at the gun katkas (or whatever they're called). Woosh, woosh, splat.

But it was the director's audio commentary and behind the scenes interviews that sold us. Just listen to the first 15 minutes - so earnest, so Ed Woodish.

Re: as a devoted re-watcher of "Johnny Mnemonic"....

[gwyn-r.livejournal.com]

ROTFL!!!

AND he has his nice buff American Psycho bod, to boot.

[gwyn-r.livejournal.com]

Does no one appreciate shallow beauty anymore?!

I think you should make this into a t-shirt.

[gwyn-r.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I'm not sure what it is that causes the disconnect for people, but clearly it seems to be a big issue -- I've lost count of the times I've read people saying they can't like vids to songs they really love for personal reasons. I guess it might be a disconnect for me if, say, I saw a crummy vid done to a song I loved and that felt really personal to me. I don't know... but some of the vids were really good! Anyways, I think this one goes hand in hand with something else I don't quite understand, which is the thing about how "the song sounds like it would have been on the show" = good, and "this song wouldn't have ever been on the show" = bad. That one completely bewilders me. Annoys me, actually.

[gwyn-r.livejournal.com]

I know! I could kind of see if it was people like you, who wanted to learn more about vids and immerse yourself in something you weren't as familiar with but liked, or another person I know who really wasn't too sure a whole weekend of it would be good or not, but... to not really like them enough to go to shows or to open yourself up to fandoms not your own... and the gripe is just weird to me.

[gwyn-r.livejournal.com]

I think the pretty is all the movie has going for it, but it's just so much pretty! ALthough they put my beloved Fichtner in the world's worst outfit, that horrid jumpsuit, and did scary things to his hair, so that wsa a mitigating factor.

[gwyn-r.livejournal.com]

I'm starting to think Netflix is going to think Sean Bean is the hottest actor in the world because so many people get Netflix just to rent Sharpe's and to get hold of some of his weird movies! It's hilarious!

[gwyn-r.livejournal.com]

Gratuitous use of puppy -- maybe that should be an awards category?

I've been vidding for years with a group of people comprising mostly folks who can't hear lyrics. I definitely get the lyrics thing and can understand why rap is hard, especially, but it's so odd to me that people won't even give it a try -- they immediately reject it before even listing, and I can't help feeling they're missing out. Though it's good to know that some people, for instance, let themselves delve into it with Sisabet's Cowboy or some such. Would you believe that even with thousands of CDs and having been intensely into music my whole life, I still don't really know what emo is? A lot of the recent classifciations kind of mystify me. Though maybe AccuRadio has that as one of its substations, I should see and then be able to identify it.

I think the thing about going to see friends isn't so much that part but that... some people were really antipathetic to vids, and I couldn't figure out why you'd spend that much money for something you didn't even like. You could, like, go to the hotel and do something different in the times they were at the con or something! But then, people frequently mystify me. ;-)

[gwyn-r.livejournal.com]

Have you ever seen Jill's version of Fragile (she had a number of different vids in the show this year, often with Kathy and Kay)? It's for X-Files, the first time the song was actually used for a vid, and it's gorgeous, in part, I think, because she faded the song out partway through so it has this short, beautiful life, leaving you wanting more, and the imagery she used at the beginning -- skyscapes, landscapes, starscapes -- are all as haunting as the song. It's an exquisite piece of work and to me really evokes what makes that song so beautiful.

[gwyn-r.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure I could do that justice, but I'd listen anyway... the next F&F vid I want to do is to that Loaded Gun song I played for you -- it's a lot of empty music space, but I think it might let me use all the crime and action stuff I didn't get to this time.

[mlyn.livejournal.com]

That's right...now I remember you talking about doing that. Well, maybe we can get together again sometime soon to hang out and throw ideas around. I'm back in Seattle for probably the next month, so let me know if you're interested.

[par-avion.livejournal.com]

No, I haven't. (I guess you've figured out that I was talking about the one at last years VVC). I've only been watching vids for two years and until just recently had only ever seen vids I DLed. It's only since the last VVC, and joining vidder and reading the archives, and especially reading the more in-depth reviews of the con DVDs on vidder and on LJ, that I've learned more about the history of vidding and become interested in "vids qua vids."

I remember Jill -- among other things, she worked on the TE vid -- and TE and XF have a similar moodiness, that I can maybe see that working, if that makes any sense. So I will check it out. Or at least, not actively avoid it because of the song and my issues. A good XF vid can really get to me, so maybe this *is* the perfect combo. Thanks for calling it to my attention.

[elynross.livejournal.com]

Me, too, me, too! I really had a blast watching it, myself.

And I've also been puzzling over all the "not my fandom/not my style of music" thing -- I either have much wider knowledge of fandoms and broader musical tastes, or a greater willingness to be convinced, or something. Heck, I even enjoyed the OTTness of Waldo's Quixote Hornblower vid. *g* That was it as far as the showtunes, though.

[klia.livejournal.com]

It's competing with The Matrix, which came out around the same time.

The Matrix came out in March of '99, and Equilibrium in December of '02, so there were almost 4 years between the two. And since The Matrix had such a huge impact on pop culture, I'm sure Equilibrium looked like a huge rip-off to a lot of people. I didn't care, I liked it, anyway. :)

[permetaform]

::blinked:: huh, I thought that, *something* came out around the same time as it...

but yeah, it's basically 1984 and F451 and some random stuff thrown together with a good dash of shiny and made into a movie =) which pleases me to no end but would peeve off people who were expecting something original I'm guessing.

[sdwolfpup.livejournal.com]

I still don't really know what emo is

Oh my word, this makes me feel so much better. I see it everywhere these days and I have no freaking idea what it is.

[sdwolfpup.livejournal.com]

I agree that I think quality of the vid does have an affect on people who are especially attached to songs. Also, I suppose if you have a very specific personal moment attached to it, seeing something else in it's place can be discordant.

Re: "Songs on shows" - Yes, absolutely! For instance, I have no problem with metal songs for Lord of the Rings vids. I really don't. I would have problems with a boy band, but then I just have issues with boy bands in general (except N*Sync - hee). Truly, though, if the vidder can sell it with their earnestness or the comedy or just excellent editing, I am willing to buy.

[keiko-kirin.livejournal.com]

Well, the vid sold Thevetia on it. She wants to see it, and Klia and I encouraged her. Because: Pretty. And: Sean Bean. 'Nuff said.

That being said, I have to admit that when I saw it in the theater, it had been, uhhhh, slightly over-hyped (even while admitting the cheese) by certain enthusiastic friends (I name no names while glancing in the general direction of Seattle), so I was expecting a bit more Sean Bean screen time than I got. But any Sean Bean screen time is better than none, and Christian Bale is all with the pretty.

It's a very stylish movie, visually impressive, and I thought the vid was extremely cool and distilled all the highlights for me (*thank you*, PR Zed!). Expect nothing startling from the script, prepare yourself for the gratuitous use of puppy, and go for it, I say!

[heresluck]

As for the favorite song thing, I think it might be cause people then have strong emotional connotations with the song, and if the vidder is trying to throw a different interpretation on the song then the disconnect will take some time getting past.

Yeah, exactly. It's not that I can't like a vid to a song I already know and love, it's that I find it difficult to code-switch to an understanding of the song that's quite different from the one I already had. If there's significant overlap, or if the song is one I love without imposing personal narratives on, I'm *more* likely to enjoy the vid, because I can coast on "oh, I love this song."

Which is how I feel about "Cannonball," actually; I like that vid so much partly because, in addition to the considerable merits of the vid qua vid, I like that song a lot.