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gwynSo, I just finished a freelance reading project. I want to eventually get into book freelance editing, and it's hard to convince people you can do this (after 20 years of editing, you'd think people would get that I can, but there's this shitty snobbery that books are so special, you can't do it unless you've, you know, done it), so you take just about any job you can get to put on your resume. One of those jobs includes working with unpublished writers (and I use that term loosely), who need to work a MS into shape before trying to hook an author or publisher -- many experienced editors won't take that kind of client. I'm doing a developmental edit on the first part of this MS, trying to give this client a sense of what he needs to do to take it further.
So I volunteered to handle this MS on the recommendation of another editor who doesn't do fiction -- she also couldn't handle the material, because it involves everything from cannibalism to sexual torture to dismemberment to animal killings to necrophilia to just about anything else you can think of. I'm not squeamish, although I do loathe things like sexual torture and smbd stuff, and all that kind of crap -- but since I'm not squicked by it, just hate it, I figured I could deal. Oddly, the thing that bothers me most is that a) he's a horrible, horrible writer, and b) the serial killer tells these disgusting, misogynistic jokes to the head of his first victim he keeps in a jar (yes, you read that right). For some reason, these jokes really upset me after the, oh, say 50th one, yet I didn't even really blink when the severed heads got sewn together. Perhaps this says something about me, but I choose not to go there.
And did I mention the lesbians? All his first victims just happen to be lesbians, and then half the female characters who show up randomly are lesbians. I have to find a way to tell him that, well, gee, first couple times might be a coincidence or the killer trying to set up some red herrings; but after a while, it starts to look like an Agenda. Particularly during the graphic sapphic lovemaking scenes. So all this -- the lesbians sprinkled throughout, the vicious anti-woman feeling of this, the graphic, unbelievably detailed torture, mutilation, and killing, I have to figure out how to politely tell him that while yes, things have changed and perhaps it's a valid desire to want to shock people, shocking people for the sake of being able to shock them does not necessarily make you a good or successful writer. In talking to him previously, I got the impression he wants to shock as a kind of Statement, but the only statement this seems to make is that he wants to sell books to guys who hate women and want to jerk off to fantasies of American Pscyho-style murders. If he does get published, please god do not let him put my name in the credits like my last author.
The whole thing might not be so bad if it weren't so badly written. He's such a nice guy, and he so wants to be a writer, but he's the worst hack you ever read fanfic by (and now I'm terrified that he'll find my LJ and recognize himself). The pedestrian, choppy sentences, the utter lack of sense, the dialog that sounds nothing like any human would ever say, the voices that all sound the same, the POV that shifts wildly and could be called omniscient third person if you had a feeling he knew what the hell that was (my favorite was in tonight's reading -- in the main character's POV, he writes "He had no idea ___ had purposely shifted the aim of his shot" -- I mean, okay, if he had no idea, then, well, he had no idea he had no idea!), the huge expository lumps (there's actually a sentence that says "___informed him of something he already knew"!) in the dialog, the inability to understand that spelling phonetically might be a bad thing and the confusion of homophones/homonyns, and so on. Some of the mistakes are high-lariously awful -- someone is "crotched over him" and another person pulls on the "wasteband" of their panties. You see where I'm going here -- and you see the tears, too, don't you, as they stream down my face?
The bad part is that he so wants to be a writer, and he's trying so hard, but the story is just unbelievably nonsensical, and I'm not sure he's clever enough as a writer to fix the gaping plot holes (the cops in this are so stupid that they can't find a large white SUV that has been spotted at the crime scene four times, and don't understand that an email from the killer might, you know, be valuable). So I have to explain to him that in fact the cops could find that SUV with the light bar on top, especially after the detective's wife was threatened when it tried to run her off the road, and that in fact emails are traceable... so he might wanna spend some time on the details of the police work. He has a decent idea at the core, but we have no sense of the killer and why he's doing this, who he is, what motivates him, and what his connection to these people is. The writer has done homework on the plot device, but... he hates to read. In my whole life, I've never met a writer who hates to read. So that also extends to his re-reading and rewriting his own work -- he can't abide it, so he wants someone to help him. Only, such extensive rewriting can only be done by the author, and I'm not sure he's capable of it or of getting over his hurdles. The worst thing of all may be that if he even found a publisher, even if they were the pulpiest publisher in the world, they'd still expect rewrites -- it's SOP for newbie authors, hell, for even experienced authors. And that's not something a copyeditor can help him with.
This is going to require every ounce of tact I've ever had in my body, and I don't know how to do this without being discouraging. The thing is? The last hack client I had like this, he got published. His book is sitting right on my shelf, mocking me -- I know all these fabulous writers who can't get the time of day from agents and publishers, but a guy like this just might be able to sell this cheesefest. And he's so nice, I can't even begrudge him that, because he's running a cooperative and he's got a new baby and is building his own house, etc. He even had an agent express interest in an outline a number of years ago, but never pursued it. And he has this dream of being a writer, which I may be about to squash like a June-bug. OTOH, if he wants to continue, he trusts my opinion enough that I might make a mint in editing his MS. Arg. I think I need to test out that valium prescription my dentist gave me to be ready for the filling replacement on Wednesday.
So I volunteered to handle this MS on the recommendation of another editor who doesn't do fiction -- she also couldn't handle the material, because it involves everything from cannibalism to sexual torture to dismemberment to animal killings to necrophilia to just about anything else you can think of. I'm not squeamish, although I do loathe things like sexual torture and smbd stuff, and all that kind of crap -- but since I'm not squicked by it, just hate it, I figured I could deal. Oddly, the thing that bothers me most is that a) he's a horrible, horrible writer, and b) the serial killer tells these disgusting, misogynistic jokes to the head of his first victim he keeps in a jar (yes, you read that right). For some reason, these jokes really upset me after the, oh, say 50th one, yet I didn't even really blink when the severed heads got sewn together. Perhaps this says something about me, but I choose not to go there.
And did I mention the lesbians? All his first victims just happen to be lesbians, and then half the female characters who show up randomly are lesbians. I have to find a way to tell him that, well, gee, first couple times might be a coincidence or the killer trying to set up some red herrings; but after a while, it starts to look like an Agenda. Particularly during the graphic sapphic lovemaking scenes. So all this -- the lesbians sprinkled throughout, the vicious anti-woman feeling of this, the graphic, unbelievably detailed torture, mutilation, and killing, I have to figure out how to politely tell him that while yes, things have changed and perhaps it's a valid desire to want to shock people, shocking people for the sake of being able to shock them does not necessarily make you a good or successful writer. In talking to him previously, I got the impression he wants to shock as a kind of Statement, but the only statement this seems to make is that he wants to sell books to guys who hate women and want to jerk off to fantasies of American Pscyho-style murders. If he does get published, please god do not let him put my name in the credits like my last author.
The whole thing might not be so bad if it weren't so badly written. He's such a nice guy, and he so wants to be a writer, but he's the worst hack you ever read fanfic by (and now I'm terrified that he'll find my LJ and recognize himself). The pedestrian, choppy sentences, the utter lack of sense, the dialog that sounds nothing like any human would ever say, the voices that all sound the same, the POV that shifts wildly and could be called omniscient third person if you had a feeling he knew what the hell that was (my favorite was in tonight's reading -- in the main character's POV, he writes "He had no idea ___ had purposely shifted the aim of his shot" -- I mean, okay, if he had no idea, then, well, he had no idea he had no idea!), the huge expository lumps (there's actually a sentence that says "___informed him of something he already knew"!) in the dialog, the inability to understand that spelling phonetically might be a bad thing and the confusion of homophones/homonyns, and so on. Some of the mistakes are high-lariously awful -- someone is "crotched over him" and another person pulls on the "wasteband" of their panties. You see where I'm going here -- and you see the tears, too, don't you, as they stream down my face?
The bad part is that he so wants to be a writer, and he's trying so hard, but the story is just unbelievably nonsensical, and I'm not sure he's clever enough as a writer to fix the gaping plot holes (the cops in this are so stupid that they can't find a large white SUV that has been spotted at the crime scene four times, and don't understand that an email from the killer might, you know, be valuable). So I have to explain to him that in fact the cops could find that SUV with the light bar on top, especially after the detective's wife was threatened when it tried to run her off the road, and that in fact emails are traceable... so he might wanna spend some time on the details of the police work. He has a decent idea at the core, but we have no sense of the killer and why he's doing this, who he is, what motivates him, and what his connection to these people is. The writer has done homework on the plot device, but... he hates to read. In my whole life, I've never met a writer who hates to read. So that also extends to his re-reading and rewriting his own work -- he can't abide it, so he wants someone to help him. Only, such extensive rewriting can only be done by the author, and I'm not sure he's capable of it or of getting over his hurdles. The worst thing of all may be that if he even found a publisher, even if they were the pulpiest publisher in the world, they'd still expect rewrites -- it's SOP for newbie authors, hell, for even experienced authors. And that's not something a copyeditor can help him with.
This is going to require every ounce of tact I've ever had in my body, and I don't know how to do this without being discouraging. The thing is? The last hack client I had like this, he got published. His book is sitting right on my shelf, mocking me -- I know all these fabulous writers who can't get the time of day from agents and publishers, but a guy like this just might be able to sell this cheesefest. And he's so nice, I can't even begrudge him that, because he's running a cooperative and he's got a new baby and is building his own house, etc. He even had an agent express interest in an outline a number of years ago, but never pursued it. And he has this dream of being a writer, which I may be about to squash like a June-bug. OTOH, if he wants to continue, he trusts my opinion enough that I might make a mint in editing his MS. Arg. I think I need to test out that valium prescription my dentist gave me to be ready for the filling replacement on Wednesday.
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Take the Money And Run
Date: 2003-04-07 09:24 pm (UTC)My my -- thanks for the lively portrait of the Great American Writer.
Re: Take the Money And Run
Date: 2003-04-07 09:28 pm (UTC)Hey, I was just reading your own LJ -- and am sending you some vibes pre-surgery and will be vibing again during the real thing. Since you can't be online much, we'll, like, you know, call you at odd hours and then expect you to talk to us, and also, we'll come down for a visit and stay long past the time we should leave. Just so's you're prepared.
Re: Take the Money And Run
Date: 2003-04-07 10:13 pm (UTC)Besides, only a few of you know my real name, so you'll not be able to find me ha ha ha -- oh wait, a bunch of you know my real name and have been over to my house.
Note to self: must adopt a better disguise.
no subject
Date: 2003-04-07 09:29 pm (UTC)Can I ask what MS stands for without sounding like an ignorant fool?
And also... wow. I love knowing more about the writing/publishing process. (not that I will ever *ever* have to worry about the publishing part)
And also... do you ever beta read fanfiction? I doubt you would have time, with your work and your writing, but it seems that you would have a unique take that not many betas have.
Forgive me if some of that didn't make sense... the pillow is calling me, I swear I can hear it.
no subject
Date: 2003-04-07 09:55 pm (UTC)I think being an editor makes me a better writer -- in the sense that I'm not sure I'm a good writer, but I really am a good editor. I love the work, most of the time, and love being able to figure out ways to make prose shine, without stripping an author of their voice. I think the biggest diff between some of the editors I know and me is that I don't try to impede an author's voice -- some of my friends are a little... aggressive in their opinions, and that's not the role of a good copyeditor. You guide, you don't force. Developmental editing looks at the really large picture, helps shape a story and give direction. Substantice editing is like a medium size sifting -- looking for large holes, making sure things fit or nothing's missing, shaping what's there already. And copyediting looks at the details -- it's the fine mesh screen, that pickes up typos and grammar problems and sense and syntax, etc.
I actually would love to beta edit more people, but my friends for years have eschewed me. I don't know what that means -- there's only been a couple folks who let me touch their stuff. I always just assumed it was because they knew I did this for a living, and they were afraid of what I would do. And I mean, since I know my shit, it's not a walk in the park if you don't want to hear anything except "you're sheer perfection", really -- I'm going to catch the typos and the bad grammar and the sense and the holes. But I'm never mean, and the freelance writers I employed at my newspaper loved me, and would spread the word around about how nice I was to work with, and I ended up with far more writers than I could handle. One friend told me to go to town on her, and I did -- she admitted the piece wasn't in shape enough to be reviewed, so it was covered in purple ink, and I think that probably scared everyone else who might ever have asked me away. So that's my sob story. I see editing/betaing as a process, a chance to learn and to share and make something sing. I just so rarely get the chance to do it! Wah, wah, poor me. ;-) I keep myself busy enough, though, with writing that it doesn't bothere me, just sometimes, when I hear someone complaining about a beta, and I think, you know, I could help you! But they don't ask.
Now I think my pillow is calling ME!
no subject
Date: 2003-04-07 09:58 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2003-04-08 02:20 am (UTC)I have practically a crew of people trying to save me from myself. The tackiness they've saved me from is stupendous.
no subject
Date: 2003-04-08 09:21 am (UTC)Here's Another
Date: 2003-04-08 07:28 am (UTC)Right now I'm doing mainly production editing, but when I interned at HarperCollins Canada I did have the chance to do a lot of assessments of stuff that came in from agents.
I'm following this post with interest, because I understand the horrors of being a write oneself and having to deal with other peoples' material. It's the main reason I'm still freelance right now and not pursuing editorial in-house, and the reason I prefer the nitpick of production editing -- I'm more of a writer than a substantive editor.
keep myself busy enough, though, with writing that it doesn't bothere me, just sometimes, when I hear someone complaining about a beta, and I think, you know, I could help you! But they don't ask.
I know!
Re: Here's Another
Date: 2003-04-08 09:29 am (UTC)The joys of freelance
Date: 2003-04-08 05:42 pm (UTC)Likewise! :)
I've been doing freelance for a little over a year now. The five-months slavery (fun working at HarperCollins pre-LOTR release since they're the Canadian publishers, good for the contacts, but indentured servitude pay, even at publishing salaray levels) at a major publisher got my foot in the door and gave me the contacts I needed to do freelance.
I didn't intend too ... I was (and still am, though haphazardly) looking for a full-time job in publishing, but I'm now too qualified for these entry level editorial assistant jobs that are basically admin and not qualified enough to apply for full editor positions that require like five years experience.
At 25, having had many admin jobs before, I'm not too keen to work my way up to that mid-level position in-company.
So I've hung my shingle. And it pays the rent and gives me plenty of writing time :)
no subject
Date: 2003-04-07 10:13 pm (UTC)If I would get off my ass and actually do the rewrites for my book I could give it another shot at shopping it around. I mean it already won the money. I just wish it was being read and enjoyed by a wider audience.
There were people in my workshop that had so many problems I never knew where to begin. I was pretty confident they would never finish their books or get close to being published anyway, so I tried to focus in on one aspect that needed work and encourage them to improve that particular one. Writers who don't read, however...
I met Roger Zelazny at a writer's conference many many years ago and his advice to writers was: READ. A LOT.
no subject
Date: 2003-04-08 09:35 am (UTC)And hell, I'd pay you to look at it if you ever needed an editorial eye. ;-) I know I've told you before, but you're an astonishing writer.
I admit I'm baffled by this guy -- that he can't want to read. I think the things that are worst about this story would be improved if he would just read a few thriller/serial killer books and watch some shows like Law and Order. That he doesn't understand the kinds of things most of us pick up through reading... it could overcome the lack of mechanical skill he has if he could at least get the underlying ideas and concepts down. THat's what scares me most. Like the folks in your workshop.
I hope I can figure out a way to communicate with him. Writers, at times, as we writers all know, are not the most receptive of audiences when they feel their art is threatened. I have to constantly remind myself to listen to things I don't want to hear. :-D
no subject
Date: 2003-04-07 10:26 pm (UTC)It's cool that you do this and like it. Maybe when I get a more sound personal economy, I will humbly ask for your guidance and simultaneously grease your palm with silver.
I've done edits for other people, but I get really nervous about imposing my will upon their work. It's a rare talent to be able to guide and suggest and gently steer creative egos toward improvement :-)
no subject
Date: 2003-04-07 11:54 pm (UTC)Then the people from the major houses would stand up and talk about marketing, publicity, and tie-ins.
This is what is wrong with publishing today: sometimes, editors don't even read the book. All it needs is a marketable handle. And so some absolutely horrible stuff can get published. I hope it doesn't happen with your name on it.
no subject
Date: 2003-04-08 09:38 am (UTC)I fear that with some help, this guy could be marketable to the sick-fuck misogynistic audience who love serial killer books. And I'll still be out there, toiling on my novel that will never get sold.