Who let the dogs out?

[gwyn]

I do not know why I am so into the Westminster Dog Show, but I am. I watch this stupid thing every year, and get all upset at the dogs that don't win that I think should win. Last night my sister phoned me right after the standard poodle had been chosen as best in class for the big show, and I had to vent my outrage before finding out she had a serious health problem. Fortunately she laughed. (I have nothing in particular against poodles, I will say up front-- I just get tired of every year, the damn poodles taking the non-working class, because I hate the stupid show cuts on those lovely dogs, and I just think the joy should be spread around, you know?).

Evil Twin laughed because she knows where I'm coming from -- we're not dog people, we're not cat people, we're all-animal people. Neither of us even knew there were other kids like us until we started pre-school, because we were somewhat isolated, and my dad raised and trained Brittany Spaniels (no Brittany was chosen this year! Stupid judges), and our house was filled with pets of every stripe. We just thought we were animals ourselves. I've been around dogs most of my life and am somewhat dog deprived now, because I know dogs, and they need more attention than I'd be able to give them what with long hours away at work. And cats are easier to care for in most ways, so I've had a cat household as an adult.

Since both Gilmore Girls and 24 are disappointing me so much, it was easy to flip back and forth between Westminster and the shows. I'm now waiting for Best in Show. Fortunately adorable little Kevin the Welsh Corgi won best in herding dogs. I was crushed last night when Smudgie, the adorable beyond belief English Bull Terrier, didn't even place for the final. Stupid judges. (Plus?No dachshunds won! Grrr) I get far, far too wrapped up in this thing, almost as much as I do my fannish shows. But there are things I don't get that are never explained, things that to a child of a field dog trainer, just don't make sense. Like the stupid show cuts. I do not get the purpose of those frigging poodle balls. I do not get the purpose of stupid bows and weird shaved areas. I also don't understand why the show person slaps the dog in the face most of the time. What are they trying to get the dog to do? Is it a signal? Some of those slaps looked really hard, and maybe because I grew up with hunting dogs, slapping seems really... not productive and kind of dangerous. I'dlove it if someone could enlighten me.

Okay, gotta go send mental signals for Kevin or Bunny to win (even though I know they won't, I have to root for them). Go, dawgs!

Comments

[klia.livejournal.com]

had to vent my outrage before finding out she had a serious health problem.

Good god, I hope she's going to be okay!

I used to watch Westminster and other dog shows, but it got to the point where I was watching the people (running dorkily, tripping, falling), instead, so I gave it up. *g*

[merkuria-lyn.livejournal.com]

Hope your sister is OK...

we're not dog people, we're not cat people, we're all-animal people.

Same here. As a child we had, at different stages, a hamster, a parrot, two rabbits, a mouse, two tortoises, and finally a dog. I've never seen myself as a dog or a cat person, simply because I don't think it's fair to compare them. From age 10 I grew up with a dog, but like you, when I moved out I realised how much attention they need, so I have two cats now. And no, they are not like the dog was because... well, they are cats after all. ;)

re. the show
I haven't watched a dog show in years but I remember flicking through channels a few years ago and getting stuck. I kind of disliked the way dogs were dressed up and groomed, but it was oddly compelling nonetheless.

[kathyh]

We just thought we were animals ourselves.

Are you like my niece who learnt to bark before she could talk? My brother's dog was very vocal and my niece copied the noises the dog made.

Hope your sister is OK.

[sweet-ali.livejournal.com]

I love the Westminster Show, i really do. Used to be an embarrassment, but i've come to terms with this and no longer am ashamed. I am a dog person though, in particular a Terrier girl, and i share your rage over the constant accolades to the poodles. I was very thrilled for the Bearded Collie this year :) ANd oh yeah, my dorkiness is showing.

I do hope everything is okay with your sister, sweetums. I'm hoping the reason you didn't talk about it much is that everything is going to be okay, but still, my thoughts and all.

Oh and did you get my beta'd copy of your story? I sent it out very very early yesterday morning.

Hope all is good *smooch*

[twistedchick]

It's not the "poodles", it's the same damn dog every time, and I'm tired of that. ::grrr::

But I loved the Newfie that won. And I agree re the English Bull Terrier -- absolutely wonderful.

(Yeah, dog nerd here.)

Oh -- the poodle cuts: theoretically, when the dogs were working as actual hunting dogs, their fur would get too long and matted when it was wet, and it would weigh the dogs down in the water when they were retrieving, so it was trimmed back in some areas to make it easier for the dog while still keeping him warm (the puffs over the hips warm the hindquarters, for instance.) The poodle that wins, though, has the most extreme poodle cut I've ever seen; a working poodle cut, on a dog actually used for hunting, is about 3" long, not a foot long. The dog should be able to see without having a ribbon tied above his forehead that might scare the birds. ::g::

Re Westminster

[taverymate.livejournal.com]

Argh! LJ ate this the first time I tried to post, and like an idiot I hadn't saved it to clipboard before the attempt. Second try.

I know that my love of Westminster as a show (and all the Eukanuba shows and agility trials on Animal Planet, and the hunting trials, too, though you have to search them out on other channels) comes from my childhood and teen years working in a Great Dane kennel. As a tv viewer, Westminster is one of the only times that the average American gets to see the wide variety of dog breeds available in the US, much less the world breeds.

"(I have nothing in particular against poodles, I will say up front-- I just get tired of every year, the damn poodles taking the non-working class, because I hate the stupid show cuts on those lovely dogs, and I just think the joy should be spread around, you know?)."

Exactly my sentiments!! Poodles are highly over-rated. I don't care how much the officials try to explain away the BIS results - they are skewed, even after allowing for differing number of years that the breed has been recognized. That's one reason that I cheered so loudly the year we got a Clumber spaniel.

"I do not get the purpose of those frigging poodle balls. I do not get the purpose of stupid bows and weird shaved areas."

Well, the official explanation is that the show cuts are derived from what were original functional cuts. Poodles were originally retrievers, often working in cold water. Supposedly, the hip balls protect the hip joints from the cold; the long chest cut keeps the heart and other internal organs warm to prevent hypothermia, and pumping vital blood to the extremtities; the tail ball is to offer a visual sight point for the hunter to find the dog in the water; and the shaved hindquarters are to lessen the weight of a heavy wet coat and allow easier swimming. Even if there is some truth to that explanation, the current cuts off far more to fashion and fads. Besides which, you don't see similar cuts on other breeds that actually do still work the water as retrievers, so I have my doubts about the function explanation.

"I also don't understand why the show person slaps the dog in the face most of the time. What are they trying to get the dog to do? Is it a signal?"

It's a signal that some handlers use to re-focus their dog's attention on them. All big show can be distracting, but something like Westminster with its large crowds, cameras, and lights is particularly bad. The muzzle slap is a way of saying "Hey, don't look at the crowds or other dog's. Look at me. Focus on me and my commands. This is important. Pay attention."

"Some of those slaps looked really hard, and maybe because I grew up with hunting dogs, slapping seems really... not productive and kind of dangerous. I'dlove it if someone could enlighten me."

Handlers vary, and so do dog's. Some muzzle slaps are little more than taps and a reminder that quickly pulls the dog's attention back to the handler; others are much harder. Handlers who use a muzzle slap will tell you that is just a signal, and not really a slap, that there is little force and no harm.

But you are right. Truly slapping a dog is a stupid thing to do, especially when training a puppy. It's an excellent way to get ruin a dog and get bit. Positive training is the only sane and safe way to go.

"Okay, gotta go send mental signals for Kevin or Bunny to win (even though I know they won't, I have to root for them). Go, dawgs!"

Two of my favorites. Kevin is not only a great Pembroke, but he has such joy in performing, and Bunny - particularly her gait - is spectacular. And Josh the Newfie won!!! Gorgeous dog, and such a sweet breed. Not a bad year for Westminster.

Karen

Re: Re Westminster - typos

[taverymate.livejournal.com]

Ignore the apostrophe abuse. I know better, but since I'm running late due to having to recreate the post, I only skimmed for errors. Sorry!

Dogshow

[darkwoods.livejournal.com]

When my kids were little I took them to the Westminster Kennel Club Dogshow. Mostly because I had always liked going to horse shows with my father and sister(she had a horse). Westminster was a riot. We have a Westie and so we went to the Westie judging and it was a scream, all these little white clone dogs running around in circles. I mean they were IDENTICAL. How the judges choose one over the other is anybody's guess. And what is with those show cuts? I never could figure them. I haven't watched it on the tube for a few years, maybe I'll check in tonight. Oh.. and my kids, now young adults, don't even remember going. Good thing I have pictures.

[gwyn-r.livejournal.com]

Wierdly, ET isn't worried at all, and apparently has been having related problems for years that she neve bothered to tell me about. Grrr. But she's all, not a big deal, just wanted you to know in case you have to come down and help me out... Sheesh.

The bad clothes I don't get -- no one looks good running in those stupid little suits the women mostly choose. the flats I get, but not the clothing. Only a few people look really good with their dogs. I'm such a meanie -- meow.

[gwyn-r.livejournal.com]

It really is strangely compelling. I just can't turn away from it when it's on. I live in a house that's only a little smaller than the first two we had as kids, and I'm just agog now that we managed to cram in so many pets in so little room!

[gwyn-r.livejournal.com]

I can't remember if we actually barked, but it wouldn't surprise me one bit!

I think my sis is actually less concerned about her health than I am! She and my dad are both hypochondriac whiners about stupid stuff, but when they have something serious, they're all, whatever. I hate that!

[gwyn-r.livejournal.com]

Yes, I got your edits, and did you get my mail back? I left you some questions about stuff -- I'm planning to work on the rewrite this afternoon, so let me know if you need me to resend.

Re:

[klia.livejournal.com]

But she's all, not a big deal, just wanted you to know in case you have to come down and help me out...

Come down and help her out? I hope she's right and it's not a big deal, but wow, I'd be freaked by that, alone. Sorry, don't mean to add to your worries!

[gwyn-r.livejournal.com]

You know, I'd totally forgotten about Josh the Newfie, and was glad that if it had to be not Kevin or Bunny, then it was Josh. He was a gorgeous Newfie (I had a friend who used to breed them, and she taught me a lot about the problems and issues with them) and so excited when he won, with all the barking and slobbering! But man, I just loved the bull terrier. He was such a doll.

The poodle cuts make sense, re the water and all, and I knew about the tail and head "balls" for sight, but show cuts just... always seem so extreme and silly now. They just seem so... naked, I guess, and I want to throw a blanket around them.

Re Westminster

[gwyn-r.livejournal.com]

Oh, this is great. Yeah, I knew a little about the poodle water thing, but I didn't really understand how the show cuts became so extreme. It sounds like it's one of those evolutionary things, but I just can't stand them. It always feels like they're stripping a very dignified dog of its dignity!

I figured the slap was a focus or command signal, but gosh, a couple people last night just whacked the crap out of the dog, and then I thought, maybe not, maybe it's a punishment for not paying enough attention. The poor litle Norwich terrier was having a lot of trouble focusing on his owner, but he never got a face touch at all, so I thought maybe I misunderstood.

Bunny was just a gorgeous, gorgeous dog. I hope they show her again, and maybe she might win. But yeah, Josh was just a total doll. I loved him barking at the crowd. The crowd really seemed to go wild for him, and I just wanted to shove my hands into his fur and give him a big bear hug.

Re: Dogshow

[gwyn-r.livejournal.com]

I've always wondered what the shows for the specific breeds would be like -- it's a clone show! And when you think about it, a lot of the competitors in the smaller percentage breeds are probably distantly related, so that would make it even more comical.

Re:

[twistedchick]

Show cuts are extreme. They push the edges of what can be done with doghair. Does anyone who owns a cocker spaniel or peke or other small furball really want it to look like a dustmop? Nobody has time to brush the dog every day.

[sweet-ali.livejournal.com]

Yeah, could you resend? Cause i didn't get the email:(

[alexfandra.livejournal.com]

The wiener dogs *never win*. Ever. It's a law. And it ain't fair, because they have to compete in the Hounds group, and there are all these enormous studly hunting dogs cavorting proudly about the ring and then along come the little dachshunds scampering madly to keep up. They never stand a chance. There was an absolutely stunningly gorgeous longhair wiener on the Eukenuba or however it's spelled dog show last week and of course it lost out to some mammoth example of a "real" hound that looked as if it could eat the little wiener for breakfast and have room left over for a cow. Harrumph.

Re: Dachshunds

[taverymate.livejournal.com]

I sympathize, but since dachshunds have 3 varieties in the group, they actually have a better chance than one might think. And their record in the group ring at Westminster is really pretty good - there have been eight dachshunds who have taken the group over the show's history. Daschunds took the hound group in both 1998 & 1997, IIRC. That's a better record than my favorites, the Danes, have in the working group. The last time a Dane took the working group was over 20 years ago! And I don't think a Harlequin Dane has ever taken the group, though I do think there was one who took the breed.

You're right - the long-haired Dachshund was gorgeous, though I've always had a soft spot for the wire-haired variety myself. They're great dogs, with incredible heart who have no idea that some people think of them as "little" dogs. And if you've ever seen a dachshund go to ground after a rabbit or rodent, you'll never be able to think of them as anything but a hound again!

Re: Re Westminster

[taverymate.livejournal.com]

"It always feels like they're stripping a very dignified dog of its dignity!"

Repeating myself here, but exactly!!! Show cuts are about appearance and glamour and visual impact, so they have often - unfortunately - mutated into forms that I personally see as not only extreme and distracting, but actually non-functional. And since having a breed that is sound and functional is high on my list of goals that a breeder should aspire to, extreme show cuts are BAD THINGS.

What's really interesting to watch Crufts, the British equivalent of Westminster, and see how the supposedly same breed varies between the UK and the US. In nearly all cases, I prefer the English breed types; they tend to be less showy and much more functional. Great cases in point are the Irish Setter, the English Springer Spaniel, and the differences between the English and the American Cockers - though those differences are so great that they became offically recognized separate breeds years ago.

Given how crazy a big show can make even the most even-tempered and experienced handler, I wouldn't be surprised if some were over-reacting under the guise of re-focus (but then I'm rather cynical about people in general). Westminster can make or break a career, and in the US at that level most handlers are professionals who don't own the dogs they show. In some cases, a handler may only get the dog on the day they show it, though dogs who are doing heavy campaigning may live with the handler for the show season.

As to the Norwich, well, terriers get cut a lot of slack by judges for their terrier temperament. They are supposed to be fiesty and interested in all around them. Plus, as a little dog, she's much closer to all the dropped bait, and food is an irrestible lure for a terrier.

Since Bunny has taken the hound group two years in a row at Westminster, I'm betting we'll see her compete again next year. She has taken a number of BISs this last year, and that's very rare for an Ibizan. Course, Ibizans themselves are fairly rare in the US.

Josh was a group repeat winner too. In fact, I think the group judge from last year was the BIS judge this year. It's always good to see a dog you like continue on in good form. How could anyone not like a Newfie? They really are incredibly sweet dogs, and that coat was stupendous. Josh just radiated "Hug me" vibes. The only downside to a Newfoundland is the drool, which can be a bit much if you aren't accustomed to carrying around a drool rag. But they are so loving that a little (okay, a lot) of drool is a small price to pay. No breed beats a mastiff for drool; well, maybe a Saint.

Karen

Re: Dachshunds

[alexfandra.livejournal.com]

There was also a fabulous bassett hound either last year or the year before who did pretty well -- guess I'm pretty partial to long low dogs.

One of my dachshunds went after a mole once, dug down about a foot in minutes, really quite amazing. They are smart, loyal, tenacious, spirited, and devoted dogs who, you're right, have no idea they are small. The wire-haired guys are even feistier, with some terrier qualities. The longhaired tend to be mellower.

I'm astonished to hear about the Great Danes -- if ever there was a dog to instill awe and admiration, that's the breed.

Re: Dachshunds

[taverymate.livejournal.com]

All puppies are adorable, but there are few breeds that are more appealling as puppies than bassetts. I think it's the combination of body parts that grow out-of-synch with each other that makes them so damned cute.

Interesting how fashions in the dog world go. Dachshunds and bassetts were so popular in the 60s, and now the hot low, long dog is the PBGV in all the size variations.

Re digging, it is astonishing how fast they can move earth - and stubborn about it leaving a hole before they decide it is empty! It's been fun to watch the rise in popularity of earth dog trials; they are great if you ever get a chance to see them. I was surprised to see one on tv not too long ago, though I think it was primarily aimed at the JR crowd. So do you have long-hairs or smooth or wire? Colors?

"I'm astonished to hear about the Great Danes -- if ever there was a dog to instill awe and admiration, that's the breed."

I must agree . But truly, a Dane is majestic - super size but graceful and calm. Very stately as adults, though in their puppy phase they have a clumsiness that can be laughable until they grow into their paws.

Speaking of dachshunds and Great Danes in the same breath, do you remember that Disney movie from the early/mid 1960s called "The Ugly Dachshund"? It featured a Great Dane reared by a dachshund with a litter of pups (smooth coats), who grew up thinking he was dachshund sized and kept getting into trouble. I must have watched that movie a dozen times. Think Dean Jones and Susan Pleshette were the human stars.

Karen

Re: Dachshunds

[alexfandra.livejournal.com]

I have two smooth-hair black wieners, purebred but as pets only. Grew up with them. The first two I had, Augustus von Binkerhoff ("Augie Dog", lived to be 16) and Angus McWilly (Willy Boy, 17), were both red smooths, and I miss having that distinctive "hot dog" color around the house. The current two are 6 and 8 and I keep going back and forth about getting a third that would be red.

Oh yes, I *own* a copy of "The Ugly Dachshund". Wonderful film. You got the human stars right. They had *five* wieners running around causing havoc, which the beautiful Dane (Brutus) got blamed for, until of course he saved the one dachshund from the garbage truck and became the hero. I am grateful that my dogs have never gotten into my art supplies the way those little imps did. Though my cats do!

Re: Dachshunds

[taverymate.livejournal.com]

Love the names, especially Angus McWilly - though it does sound like a Scottie name. When I think of the classic dachshund, it's definitely the red smooth coats, but I like all the coats and colors.

"Oh yes, I *own* a copy of "The Ugly Dachshund". Wonderful film."

A woman after my own heart. That's been on my list to buy for ages, I just haven't tracked down a copy.

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Love the names, especially Angus McWilly - though it does sound like a Scottie name. When I think of the classic dachshund, it's definitely the red smooth coats, but I like all the coats and colors.

"Oh yes, I *own* a copy of "The Ugly Dachshund". Wonderful film."

A woman after my own heart. That's been on my list to buy for ages, I just haven't tracked down a copy.

<<I am grateful that my dogs have never gotten into my art supplies the way those little imps did. Though my cats do!>>

With my cat it was paper, especially any that I was using to write with. I used to joke that there was a heat activated magnet in his chest that exerted an inexorable pull every time I touched a piece of paper. Turn around, and there he sat on it, all 15 pounds laying claim.

Re: Dachshunds

[alexfandra.livejournal.com]

"The Ugly Dachshund" is available on DVD:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0001I55RE/imdb-adbox/002-6607706-8179251