gwyn: (spuffy)
[personal profile] gwyn


I’ve put off writing about the season 6 discs for many reasons. One is that I still haven’t managed to listen to the commentary tracks for all eps, and it seems wrong to go forward without that background info. Two is that I know I have only a few positive things to say (primarily about the first part of the season), and it makes me feel like a churlish, cranky fangirl, especially when others have written wonderful opuses (opi?) about just why it’s better than anyone gave it credit for being. And third, it just makes me mad — in both senses of the word, and then it gets hard to control my train of thought and wrassle it into something resembling linear, coherent thought.

So maybe I’ll start out with the physical stuff, rather than the spiritual. The extras here are pretty meager, as is to be expected; I liked the thought of including the Buffy panel more than the actual reality of it, especially because the person running the panel did such an execrably poor job that it devolved into Life Lessons from Mutant Enemy. Everything else is charming enough, but not particularly substantive. It’s always struck me as strange that the Buffy discs did not include commentary from any of the actors except the lone Seth Green appearance, along with Marti Noxon and Joss, on S4. Actor commentaries are no more risky, really, than the crew commentaries — some of them will sing, some will tank (is there anyone more stultifying than David Fury? I think not, and the Grave comment track was the only one I listened to yet), so it’s curious that they haven’t relied on their vivacious performers more. This was the first set in a while of the BtVS or Angel discs that I didn’t have to return because of problems, though the packaging was a mess when I got it. Once again, I take Fox to task for their exceptionally poor execution — I’d much prefer spending a few more dollars for packaging that’s not so shoddy.

In some respects, I wish the extras had been better, because it might have taken the sting away from what was, for me, the definition of a show gone wrong. S6 starts out so wonderfully, but watching it devolve — made more intensely disappointing by the compactness of seeing it over the course of days — into something squalid and loathsome is a really difficult experience. And the Buffy panel brings home something that I’ve been feeling for a long time — clearly there was a misunderstanding of what they were doing, but everyone feels compelled to jump on the company bandwagon and support the missteps, and no one is deviating from the party line, no sir. Listening to that panel, especially as James Marsters and Michelle Trachtenberg try to expound upon the virtues of a dark storyline that tells the truth about growing up, when they so clearly have their own misgivings about their own roles, is embarrassing. The backpedaling and excuse-making is terrible, as over and over everyone emphasizes how many bad decisions young adults make, how difficult it is growing up, etc., yet no one seems to recognize that their own personal beliefs and experiences are not the audience’s. There’s a palpable sense of disenchantment when the actors talk about the less savory aspects of S6, and I get the sense once again that Joss is trying to keep up that “Marti did okay” front, only it doesn’t quite work when you can see the faces and the body language of the rest of the crew.

It’s particularly bad when Alyson Hannigan can only find one positive thing to say about her addiction storyline, and that’s more about Dark Willow than anything else. The ME group defend the addiction storyline and the bad sex storyline because we all do these things growing up, but they lose sight of the fact that, gosh, not everyone abused drugs/had addictions, not everyone had hate sex, not everyone had horrific poverty or abandonment experiences... and so on. It’s as if they desperately need to believe that this was a resonant storyline in everyone’s lives; the problem of course is that it isn’t, and that crew, without Joss’s guidance, couldn’t make it so no matter how didactically they approached it. One of Joss’s many gifts is his ability to translate his kid experiences to the show; unfortunately, the others aren’t so capable, and it came across as a mendacious bible study lesson, as though we could all relate if you just told us hard enough. They don’t understand the “show, don’t tell” rule here at all, and the second half suffers badly because of that.

It’s especially sad given how perfectly this begins. We get a wonderful picture of a group of survivors — not happy survivors, but still managing to get by — right away in the teaser scene of Bargaining. And for those of us who’ve watched Willow’s journey from meek, shy, nearly invisible girl to confident witch, it’s not a surprise to see her getting perilously close to the power tripping that comes with the ability to resurrect someone. Some of the early episodes will always rank among my favorites — the tentative steps of friendship and caring between Buffy and Spike that start in After Life and carry on, especially in Life Serial; the growth of Dawn as she starts understanding her own abilities as a person; the give-and-take between Anya and Xander as they move down a path that really does resonate with a lot of people at that stage of life; the subtle undercurrent of worry from Tara of what Willow may or may not be capable of that we started to see in Tough Love. There wasn’t much to do about the loss of Giles, unfortunately, and in his final departure after Tabula Rasa, the core starts to fall away and the dissolution starts. Not, though, before we get two sublime episodes — Once More With Feeling, and Tabula Rasa.

Watching these now so closely after the first eps in the season, it’s amazing what they were able to accomplish, veering from heart-wrenching sadness to laugh out loud humor, the hallmarks of this show cubed. Knowing what the cast and crew went through to get OMWF made is even more astonishing; where many feared this would be the jump the shark episode, seeing how it was made instead shows everyone at their finest, and makes us realize just how far above anything else this series was. And the comic timing, coupled with the tragic ending and that gorgeous set of crosscuts on all the major characters to Michelle Branch’s song (which at the time was sublime, and I wish UPN hadn’t beaten it into the ground as S7 wound to a close), was a perfect companion piece to OMWF, which would have been a terribly hard act to follow, and makes TR all the more extraordinary.

And then, somehow, it all starts to fall apart, and tumble into a cesspool of ugliness and character rape. Where the abiding concern of Tara’s — Willow overusing magic, Willow not understanding her abuse of her power over others — is reduced to addiction and I can stop anytime. Where Buffy’s growing friendship and feelings for Spike are reduced to bad, user sex as shorthand for her lack of feeling and affection and her own self hate (because really, why else have sex with Evil Spike unless you hate yourself?). Where Xander is turned into a craven, lying coward at the one moment where he would normally shine, and Anya is reduced to a shell of herself in order to affect her redemonization. Where Dawn’s worst characteristics are overemphasized to the point that anyone would want to see her killed off just to stop the whining and the screaming. Where Spike is deus ex machinaed back to just loathsome evil soulless Spike in a clumsy attempt the stop the growing fan base for the “romance.” The trouble with watching these discs so closely together (the second half of season 6 is something I’ve barely been able to watch again on FX in repeats, so many of these eps feel fresh and new) is that you begin to see the seams in the episodes, the scattershot writing and phoned-in acting, and start to realize how brutishly the messages they want us to accept are being pounded into our heads.

Over and over in the Buffy panel feature, they make the excuse that people were upset by the darkness of the latter half. And that’s all it sounds like — a flimsy excuse, because darkness has always been an attractive part of Buffy. They refuse to recognize that it wasn’t darkness that appalled people, but an ongoing destruction of character and squalid, lecturey storylines. I may never put in the fourth disc again as long as I live; in fact, if I weren’t a vidder and it didn’t have Spike on the front, I’d probably throw it in the trash, but I may need clips from it. What a repulsive collection of the worst of Buffy, in both senses. The worst of everyone. At the time, I thought nothing could be worse than Doublemeat Palace, with the humping in the alley and the stupid storyline and the destruction of our Hero character in the most humiliating way possible, but then they managed to make it worse with Dead Things and As You Were. I know there are a lot of folks who like Dead Things, but for me, this was about as far down as they wallowed in the filth for Buffy’s character, and it shows in every frame of the episode. By following it so blithely with Older and Far Away (which, even though Noxon admits it was a bad timing error, still sits there in our sets, an unfixable mistake), we get a picture of Buffy that was nearly unrecoverable for many people. (I had a friend I’d finally turned on to the show with OMWF, and by the time Dead Things came around, she told me she never planned to watch it again — she thought it was one of the most detestable things she’d ever seen.)

There honestly is no excuse for As You Were — just ignoring the whole trying to re-create Riley as the perfect man (how better to contrast yucky Spike?) and bringing in Mary Sue wife, what’s really astounding to me is that they thought he’d still look heroic even while evincing no concern whatsoever for Buffy, her death (which she mentions, and he says nothing), her mother’s death, her miserable life, or her situation and where Giles is. He lies to her, puts her in a humiliating position, and yet she is filled with adoring tenderness for him, because he’s human and has a soul and goddammit we are supposed to love Gary and Mary Sue Finn. Gah.

That’s the kind of preachiness I can live without. Unfortunately, it just gets worse, with the inexcusably dishonest Normal Again (yes! It’s all a lie... or maybe not, we can’t decide, but it’s geeky cool to pretend to fuck with your head), cascading down into the cesspool with Seeing Red and Villains and then our big finale of Grave, where Buffy’s epiphany that She Wants to Live! is supposed to move us, but mostly made everyone sneer. Two eps stand out here, not because they are the sum of their parts, but because they have acting gorgeousness: Hell’s Bells and Entropy. In both of these, the overall storyline still sucks and the writing is haphazard, but in Hell’s Bells, Anya becomes everyone’s favorite girl with her adorable pre-vow monologues and her squeal of “I get to marry my best friend”; plus the exquisite scene between Buffy and Spike, recapturing the magic chemistry they always had and that disappeared after Smashed. In Entropy, the scenes between Anya and Spike are an amazing example of two actors who have impeccable dramatic and comedic timing, and even though I never bought the concept of them having grief sex, they sold it to me right through the tube.

But it’s hard to grab those magic moments in between the rest of the garbage. No amount of yellow crayons could make me warm to Xander again after his despicable, craven, selfish desertion of Anya and it took nearly a whole season before I could care for him again. While I deeply understand Buffy’s tendency toward violence, I still could not quite grasp her vicious beating of Spike and the subsequent ignoring of it. Dawn’s increasingly shrill, wretched behavior may have been explained away on the show, but never once made any kind of sense to me as a viewer. And their insistence on both admitting why Willow wanted to abuse magic (she confesses to feeling worthless without it) yet immediately reducing it to a physical addiction and having her shake like a junkie trivialized her complexities. Saying that all kids go through these things on their way to being an adult? Doesn’t cut it. The worst part is how it comes through in the performances. I’ve seen some very well-written dissections of why SMG’s performance as the disaffected Buffy is so incredible when contrasted to earlier seasons, but it never felt this way to me — her unease and distaste for the stories oozes off her in waves. Knowing what she said later about how much she hated those stories isn’t even necessary, because her loathing comes through almost every scene. And now that we know how James Marsters felt about his nude scenes and their frequency, I find it even harder to watch eps were once pruriently enjoyable.

Worse is the discomfort of the other actors, as they pretend they weren’t uncomfortable, in the Buffy panel. None of the cast have much to say about enjoying their work on those eps, except some public relations toadying from JM and MT. AH is clearly uncomfortable, and this makes sense, given that she radiates ennui all over the place in the addiction story. Watching her performance on the discs, she seems nearly catatonic at some points, her attention wandering, and it’s only when Amber Benson comes back in proximity as Tara that she brightens up. And it’s interesting that JM and MT feel the need to explain things; I thought they lost out significantly that year when the Spike and Dawn friendship disappeared. (Their indelible scene in Seeing Red is still the saving grace of that ep, for me, where Dawn visits and tries to understand what’s happening, and Spike reacts to her with such tenderness and regret. And all, unbelievably, without even looking at each other.)

I’d wager most Buffy fans have a taste for the darker things when the characters are people they understand, and where we know that good trumps evil, heroes exist, etc. What people don’t like is watching characters turn despicable and detestable or get ground down and humiliated, seeing their own miserable lives and failures mirrored by people they want to succeed where they cannot, and then feeling misery come off the actors in waves. The pretense that everyone was behind this left turn in the show is a sort of contumely at the audience, and I think people reacted to it as they react to most insults and fabrications — they left, muttering darkly as they went.

Much of what happened in the second half bears the lecturing, hectoring, Afterschool Special type of storytelling stamp, dumped into a putrid concoction of squalid sex and violence, abuse of the actors, calumny of the characters, and haphazard, continuity-free writing. (As example, I think one of the worst lines ever on the show has to be Buffy telling Spike she won’t have him in her house because “I won’t let Dawn down by letting you in,” ignoring the longstanding but largely absent Spike and Dawn friendship, and using it as an excuse for Buffy to have sex on the lawn with Spike in full view of anyone coming by. It doesn’t get more nonsensical and bizarre than that.)

All of this flies in the face of Joss’s compositional gifts — darkness and horror and drama leavened with droll wit and gorgeous dialog and achingly real characters we all know and love, because they are us. His knack for turning youthful experiences into drama is unequaled; unfortunately, he believed that his ME peers could equal that, and left them to create this sordid mess of a second half. And it was very, very hard to get that back in S7, which to his credit, I believe he mostly did. As a completist and vidder, I have to have these discs. But there are only a few I will ever willingly watch again — I feel this deep need to protect the characters I love so much, and watching them be mutilated and degraded and cheapened by someone’s personal agenda makes me feel helpless about how they were mishandled.

Date: 2004-06-29 02:29 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] paratti.livejournal.com
Word.
For me, they never did fix Buffy and Xander - and that means I can't watch re-runs or get my Xmas present S6 12-22 tapes out of the plastic despite all the time that's gone past. And I know SMG's shite 'acting' means I'll never watch her in anything again, as I'm positive it was to try and redress the balance of sympathy for her that they trashed my show.

Date: 2004-06-30 10:41 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gwyn-r.livejournal.com
I never got that feeling, precisely, but I did definitely get the impression that they were scrambling to undo what they'd done. But I think by that point they'd lost SMG -- it didn't surprise me one bit when she wanted to quit. What only surprises me more was that no one else did, either.

Date: 2004-06-30 11:10 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] paratti.livejournal.com
I think (apart from EC and SMG) the others had contracts they couldn't get out of. I think NB realised no-one really would want him. Aly walked through the part on auto-pilot. JM seemed to be trying to make a storyline that seemed to take him to the edge of a personal breakdown into something artistically justified so he could live with it. And SMG did a massive amount of the damage to her popularity herself with her lack of acting effort/lousy choices - though ME stuck the knife in well and good in their most passive-aggressive shit to date.

Date: 2004-06-29 02:31 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kita0610.livejournal.com
You know, I debated reading this post because I know you're a Spike (Spuffy?) fan and I have been down the road of OMGUMADEMYHEROARAPIST arguments too many times to even try to be rational about it.

But, shit. You almost convinced me.

I liked S6. I liked the darkness, the fucked-upness, the fact that Buffy fell so far from grace. Because I had high hopes she'd rise again in S7. She didn't. Neither did Xander, or Willow, or..well, anyone really. Even Spike with his shiny new soul and personality transplant was a pale imitation of anything I'm interested in watching. So my problem wasn't with 6, but with 7, and its failure to remotely redeem *anyone*.

S6 resonated for me in a lot of ways, I'm sure it doesn't for everyone, and hey, that's good. Who the hell *wants* to be that depressed?? It does though, make me very sad that the actors hated what they did. I have nothing but respect for all of them, including and maybe especially SMG, who everyone seems so fond of bashing. And to think they went to work everyday and wished they were somewhere else, while I watched what they produced and really *enjoyed* it- makes me feel a little skeevy.

So thanks for this even handed post, even though we may not agree on all (all??) points, it did make me think, rather than make me wanna scream in horror.

And how odd that SpuffyspikeB/A shippers can ALL agree that Marti noxon is in need of serious fucking therapy. Word.

Date: 2004-06-29 03:15 pm (UTC)
ext_841: (Default)
From: [identity profile] cathexys.livejournal.com
how odd that SpuffyspikeB/A shippers can ALL LOL. ain't that the truth...we may all infight like cats and dogs, but here's the enemy to *everything* against whom we can can come together!!!

gwyn, great post that makes me realize some of the things i always felt gutlevel about that season (and i always felt that it was *me*, but you make me believe that it might not only have beent that :-)

Date: 2004-06-30 10:46 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gwyn-r.livejournal.com
At least for most of us, when we're humiliated and degraded at work, we don't have to endure it in front of millions of people. And pretend that we're on board with it, or do it naked.

Date: 2004-06-30 01:55 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kita0610.livejournal.com
Well, most of us don't look that good naked, either. ;}

Date: 2004-06-29 03:05 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kassto.livejournal.com
Thanks for doing this, Gwyn. The horribleness of the last half of season 6 and most of season 7 still sit like a hard lump in my stomach which I can't digest. Which means I can't get past them. It's still a very uncomfortable place to be.

To me, the awfulness of season 6 isn't so much that a lot of people didn't have evil sex or addiction so we couldn't relate to that -- it's just that those plot lines were so manipulative, and so untrue to the characters. They were an abomination in terms of the interesting things that had been building up in earlier episodes and seasons. Buffy's dark side -- what did it really mean and how did it tie into the slayer's origins -- it is touched on in Buffy and Dracula but never developed. Spike's striving to change without a soul -- ditched, irrelevant -- he's just an evil dildo for the heroine. Etc etc. I still don't know how to get past all this stuff.

Date: 2004-06-30 11:14 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gwyn-r.livejournal.com
Yeah, that's what I meant by agenda -- I think people would have been very happy to have a truly dark and sad season with Buffy dealing with all those problems if it just hadn't been designed to yank our chains and Teach Us A Lesson. There were so many interesting places that the story could have gone and still dealt with that darkness of people in a bad place. But if you trash all the characters, and you use them as your mouthpiece, then what do people have to hang on to? There's no there there -- it's not that the there is dark, it's that there's nothing inside the darkness.

Date: 2004-06-29 03:09 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kassrachel.livejournal.com
OMWF and Tabula Rasa were my first episodes of Buffy, and I love them both for that reason; I'm glad to hear an informed fan say that they're actually good, because it's hard for me to penetrate the haze of fannish squee that surrounds both of them.

The episode where Xander leaves Anya at the altar was one of the hardest hours of television I've ever sat through. I will never watch it again; it broke my heart.

Thanks for this thoughtful post.

I still hope and plan to see seasons 1-5 someday...

Date: 2004-06-30 11:17 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gwyn-r.livejournal.com
OMG, you haven't seen the best of Buffy, you've only seen the worst! That's awful. We must correct this, immediately. You're of course going to make immediate vacation plans and come to Seattle where I will indoctrinate you. S2 and 5 are my favorites -- the best of everything, funny, grim, operatically tragic, and just yummy.

Date: 2004-06-29 03:25 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] reginaspina.livejournal.com
Wow! Fabulous review that pinpointed the very moments that made me stop being a "Buffy" fan - although I never really got it back and loathed Season 7 possibly more than I loathed the latter half of season 6.

Also, your icon of Clive Owen is GORGEOUS!

Date: 2004-06-30 11:21 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gwyn-r.livejournal.com
It's interesting how many people have said that it was the lack of feeling for 7 that that made 6 more untenable for them. I actually liked 7 a lot most of the time (not always), and weirdly, I didn't hate 6 when it was airing -- it was only afterwards.

Thanks for the icon compliment -- I can't claim credit for Clive's gorgeous pic, but the icon is one of the few I've made on my own -- and if you want it, you can take it.

Date: 2004-06-30 12:27 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] reginaspina.livejournal.com
It's interesting how many people have said that it was the lack of feeling for 7 that that made 6 more untenable for them. I actually liked 7 a lot most of the time (not always), and weirdly, I didn't hate 6 when it was airing -- it was only afterwards.

Heh! I guess I kept hoping they’d pull it out in Season 6 and then I kept hoping they’d make it all better in Season 7, and they really didn’t. And although I very much liked individual episodes (CWDP for example, springs to mind) it just seemed to carry on the thread of no one quite knowing WHY they were still making this show. And that made me sad. As much as I loved Season 5 of ATS, I’m sort of relieved that it ended on what to me was a total high note – so I never have to feel all bitter about it!

Thanks for the icon compliment -- I can't claim credit for Clive's gorgeous pic, but the icon is one of the few I've made on my own -- and if you want it, you can take it.

Seriously? Thanks so much! I totally will (and obviously will credit you!) It’s beautiful. Now I just need a matching Lancelot one … Hmmmm!

Date: 2004-06-29 05:42 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ltlj.livejournal.com


Hi, I found this reading friends' friends lists and I just want to say I thought this was a great review. I think you really pinpoint for me a lot of the reasons why I disliked this season so much and the issues I had with the characterization, plots, and everything else.

Date: 2004-06-30 11:24 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gwyn-r.livejournal.com
Hi! ::waves:: The hardest part for me was realizing after the fact that I loathed the second half -- I didn't when it was unfolding. I hated specific parts and specific things about each ep, but the only eps I wanted to shoot the TV for were DMP and Normal Again. And then as the repeats unfolded, I realized how askew everything was, and really began to see how badly the actors and characters were being handled.

S6 Review

Date: 2004-06-29 06:06 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] claudia-yvr.livejournal.com
I will always love the Jossverse with a fiery passion, but I am quite bitter about how sloppily the show was written towards the end. Gwyn, you really captured many the reasons I was so unhappy with the latter half of S6. Unfortunately, I was even more disappointed by the season that followed. To this day, the only S7 episode I've watched more than once has been 7x02, and that's always bittersweet for me because I never wanted, or needed, Spike to have a soul.


Re: S6 Review

Date: 2004-06-30 11:29 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gwyn-r.livejournal.com
That's an incredible icon -- it really sums up everything I've said, doesn't it? I really liked S7, but it was a hard sell sometimes. And I can't hate Joss or his universe, but I never did quite get the point with the choices they made in 6 that had such lasting repurcussions.

Date: 2004-06-29 06:27 pm (UTC)
fishsanwitt: (Default)
From: [personal profile] fishsanwitt
This is an amazing post :) You brought up a lot of things I felt. I have S6 and I do plan to watch it, but I do feel a certain amount of trepidation b/c of the last half and how much they fucked things up for these characters that I really love.

Date: 2004-06-30 11:37 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gwyn-r.livejournal.com
Well, hopefully I haven't soured you ahead of time! ;-) I think the hard part is putting into perspective after S7, and trying to see where things got fixed, and where they didn't. In some ways, that seems to have made it harder for a lot of other folks.

Date: 2004-06-30 10:14 pm (UTC)
fishsanwitt: (Default)
From: [personal profile] fishsanwitt
No, you haven't soured me, but thank you for that :)

My zombie Spuffy heart simply *will not die* :) so no matter how awful things look for our guy/gal, my Spuffyiosity asserts itself.

I saved your post in my memories b/c I want to read it again, later, at my leisure :)

Date: 2004-06-29 07:19 pm (UTC)
ext_7351: (S/B phoenix)
From: [identity profile] http://users.livejournal.com/_jems_/
It's amazing to me that I can agree with almost everything in your post and still consider season 6 to be my second favorite season. Several of the early episodes are in my top ten favorites and no matter what, it's the season that got me well and truly obsessed with the show.

My problem lies mainly with season 7, because I felt that it didn't do enough to fix the mess that season 6 left behind. In fact, it's my opinion that it didn't do enough - period. And just like season 6 it had a very promising start. It's a shame they couldn't utilize that potential - on both counts.

Date: 2004-06-30 11:40 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gwyn-r.livejournal.com
That seems to be a common thread among the folks who've commented here, interestingly -- that it wasn't so much S6 itself, but the way S7 didn't undo the damage. I liked 7, so I don't have the same perspective (not that I eagerly seek it out to watch; I still turn it off when it comes on FX, and only tend to watch repeates when it's 1-5, oddly), but I liked how a lot of the characters got better. The big problem of course was that they didn't fix two of the most important characters, and that was v. bad.

Delurking briefly

Date: 2004-06-29 07:47 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] downunderdeb.livejournal.com
Have enjoyed your postings, and fic, for quite some time, but have never commented. However this lucid commentary on Season 6 has so defined everything that I felt about the season that I felt compelled to make a posting. I have read so many statements (especially academic) that have supported the darkness of the season, 'how brave' the writers were, how it so effectively dealt with the 'dark' years of earlier adulthood, that I have often felt that I must have been watching a different show. I bought the S6 discs when they came out in Australia last year in May, but have only ever rewatched a handful of episodes. I have tried to watch the whole season but once I get to Tabula Rasa the thought of the ugliness that follows, prevents me (Hell’s Bells being, perhaps, the only exception - the final scene with Anya is heart rendering). No amount of Spike flesh will change that for me, especially knowing how uncomfortable those scenes made JM feel. I often wonder, pointlessly, how different things would have been if Joss had still had his hand on the rudder. I also feel, as you do, that he in some way redeemed himself, and his characters in Season 7 (even if a large contingent of fans think otherwise). As I have rewatched Season 1 this week, I am again reminded of why I became so immersed in the Jossverse to begin with (and hopefully finding the love again so I can write my damned honours thesis on it), and the great joy that a well-written and acted TV show can bring to its’ viewers. Thank you for your intelligent and considered exegesis on Season 6.

Re: Delurking briefly

Date: 2004-06-30 12:33 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gwyn-r.livejournal.com
Hi!

that have supported the darkness of the season, 'how brave' the writers were, how it so effectively dealt with the 'dark' years of earlier adulthood, that I have often felt that I must have been watching a different show.

That just baffles me -- what's brave is actually having them deal with it, rather than wallow or escape or blame. I mean, if Xander had gone through with the wedding and dealt with his fears, *that* would have been brave and strong, and I never got how we were supposed to accept that this was the way the writers were moving him into adulthood. He would have been far more adult to have done what he said he was going to do. And of course, on and on ad infinitum.

I hope you can find that love again -- especially since it sounds like a great topic for a thesis. I still struggle with how S6 affected my view of everything before and after, and I'm never totally convinced that I know how I feel.

Re: Delurking briefly

Date: 2004-06-30 03:41 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] downunderdeb.livejournal.com
"and I don't need a bunch of academic snobs or defensive crew to tell me that I'm not clever enough to get the difference between dark and ugly. (I'm not sure why, but the academics who wax rhapsodic about it as though the lay audience was too moronic to get it really raises my hackles.)"

I actually attended a Buffy symposium here in Oz last year that had a few big name international Buffy scholars, and ended up walking out on one presentation about the 'darkness' of S6 which appeared to be an excuse to have as many clips of naked Spike as possible, rather than a valid reading of S6. Now I find myself increasingly in a 'discomfort' zone when dealing with fanatical outpourings masquerading as academic papers, especially in regards to the male body. As a feminist (and no I'm not afraid of that word unlike younger females today, and at 45 I just don't give a damn) I cannot tolerate the same sort of commodification of the body of either gender, especially when females have complained about it in relation to the female body for so long. I can 'lust' over some actor in my own mind, but find it disquieting to hear or read it in an academic paper, hence the tentative title of my thesis "Mapping the male body: the female gaze in BtVS".

Regarding Xander - "Potential" was the episode that made me regain the Xanderlove, although he has always been a tad annoying - I know Joss tends to think of Xander as representing himself, but I see him more as MN, with his/her inability to see beyond the black and white, and realise that the grey areas/characters really are what makes life interesting and real.

Re: Delurking briefly

Date: 2004-07-01 08:21 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gwyn-r.livejournal.com
It sounds like you and I are in the same age group, and share similar feelings about the feminist/body commodification issue. As someone who started out in media fandom among pretty heavy duty slash fans, I always had a hard time balancing some of my feelings with what I thought was the zeitgeist of female fandom in regards to the way they looked at men. It wasn't really till Buffy came on the air, and La Femme Nikita at the same time, that I began to realize I was a little out of step. S6 made me feel even more out of step. I can't imagine having to deal with this in my field of choice -- but your paper sounds really cool!

Re: Delurking briefly

Date: 2004-07-01 08:43 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] downunderdeb.livejournal.com
Put it down to the fog of flu and tonsillitis that I am currently quagmired in (or just my usual dopiness), but what did you feel you were out of step with, especially in regard to 'Buffy' and 'La Femme Nikita' (ahh .. where have all the good shows gone, long time passing), was it the treatment of males, and if so what was it that you noticed?

Date: 2004-06-30 02:43 am (UTC)
ext_8710: White Witch of Narnia, Mucha style (Default)
From: [identity profile] leyna55.livejournal.com
I like episodes of S6. I liked scenes in others. There were fun bits and I enjoyed the character moments, but S6 is overall my least liked season.

The Buffyverse Metaphors for Life work best when they are off the wall, and larger than life (Politician turns into giant snake!). Season 6 forgot this. The Magic is a Drug Addiction storyline actually subverts this tendency, making something larger than life into something very mundane. (or rather Willow feels unappreciated and gets hooked on powerful mojo IS the life metaphor for getting hooked on drugs. Turning it back again to be a physical addiction is just clumsy and ignores all the interesting underlying psychological reasons).

I didn't object to the darkness in the Season. I liked the final eps and the Dark Willow storyline, for example. My problem was that the writers forgot that when they decided on the theme of Young Adulthood gone Wrong, they also had to make the storyline interesting and compelling.

S6 was often lacking in subtlety, most notably in the Theme eps. I often got the feeling that the writers were bludgeoning me with their ideas - Look- we have a Theme! It is Important! Life IS squalid! (hmmm squalid - good word). To which I reply, "Yeah, I'm aware of that. Bring back Glory and her minions - 'cause they were stupid, but fun."

The theme of the season is symbolised for me by DoubleMeat Palace. The concept is OK. It could work well as a surreal film. On BtVS it was just plain dull. I can often get some enjoyment out of a bad episode. A dull one is, IMHO, a worse sin.

Date: 2004-06-30 12:43 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gwyn-r.livejournal.com
that have supported the darkness of the season, 'how brave' the writers were, how it so effectively dealt with the 'dark' years of earlier adulthood, that I have often felt that I must have been watching a different show.

Yes! This is exactly what I meant to say, only I didn't because I yam a doofus. I kept wondering how they had worked with Joss all those years and still didn't understand this basic concept of his universe, because clearly he was not steering that ship. All his small fixes after the fact couldn't change the fact that the larger than life was missing and turning the point of the show around.

The theme of the season is symbolised for me by DoubleMeat Palace. The concept is OK. It could work well as a surreal film. On BtVS it was just plain dull.

It misfires on so many levels that it's kind of mind-boggling. I called a friend afterwards and asked, is it just me who was disturbed by that? By that faceless humping in the alley? By how bizarrely out of character everyone was, and the story was so silly? And she said, yes, you are the only one. So for a long time I thought it was me, till I got back into Buffy fandom and found out there were more folks who shared that opinion.

Date: 2004-06-30 07:51 am (UTC)
ext_2333: "That's right,  people, I am a constant surprise." (Default)
From: [identity profile] makd.livejournal.com
Enjoyed your writing for some time; sorry that I haven't stepped forward earlier to tell you.

Your review of Season 5 is spot on. Like so many, many, other buffy fans, I deplore the use of one's personal power to work through one's own therapy issues. I also deplore Joss' seeming to walk away from BtVS once his precious OMWF was shot.

Date: 2004-06-30 12:45 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gwyn-r.livejournal.com
Hello!

Yeah, you know, I realize that Joss was still involved, but he was clearly not keeping the flame. And it saddens me that he thought so highly of MN that he left her in charge and won't admit that it was a mistake. I guess loyalty is a cool thing, but there's a point past which you say, well, we goofed, let's move forward.

Date: 2004-06-30 08:44 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] janedavitt.livejournal.com
Absolute and utter agreement with all of this. I usually get the DVDs, watch the commentaries and extras then sit down and watch from start to finish, to really get a feel for it. This season? No. Watched the commentaries and did a lot of seething about the dismissive comments about Giles leaving and the utter boredom I felt with some. Then I found I couldn't really sit through the opening two-parter after watching it so recently with the commentary.

Then I buckled down (OK, I watched OMWF first, but who wouldn't?) and started to watch in order...and I couldn't watch Doublemeat. Just couldn't. And I couldn't watch Riley Returns and I won't. And I'll be skipping through Normal Again.

I've stuck up for S6 but I'm forced to admit it isn't wearing well for all the reasons you give. The tender, caring Spike giving way to the gleeful, gloating Spike after he slept with her, the contrast between showing her his world by taking her to a pub, and dragging her into the shadows with that ludicrous sex on the balcony (which still plays out like a fantasy)... OK, I could rant but you said it all ready.

Damn, what a waste.

Date: 2004-06-30 12:49 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gwyn-r.livejournal.com
Yes, that's exactly it -- what a waste. I think of all the incredibly deep and dark stories that could have been told and I just get so depressed that they never will be, except by fanfic writers (and I prefer things on screen). There was such a goldmine in the S/B relationship that was just thrown away because he's evil and she's using him through self hate. Wow, what a missed opportunity for an arc about how difficult it is when you're drawn to a person everyone else you should love can't stand, and how do you integrate them into your life? What if you desperately want to save someone, and can't, even when she appears to be letting you? What if... a thousand "adult" storylines that never were because it didn't fit in the B&W worldview of one person.

god help you, you pushed one of my buttons...

Date: 2004-06-30 11:00 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] smithereen.livejournal.com
...now you'll never, ever get me to shut up.

I’d wager most Buffy fans have a taste for the darker things when the characters are people they understand, and where we know that good trumps evil, heroes exist, etc. What people don’t like is watching characters turn despicable and detestable or get ground down and humiliated, seeing their own miserable lives and failures mirrored by people they want to succeed where they cannot, and then feeling misery come off the actors in waves.

Yes. Exactly. Unlike what happened to me watching the characters of Angel and Cordy in Angel season 3, with Buffy season 6 I COULD understand where the characterizations were coming from. They were often clumsy and poorly written, but it didn't feel wildly out of left field and completely unsupportable to me. But I didn't want to see my characters this way. I LOVED those characters. Why would I want to see them all become hateful, ugly people I could no longer respect or like? And that's what happened for me. I was watching these people I knew so well those first three season. People I truly loved. Become people I felt contempt for.

My problem with season 6 wasn't that is was dark. My problem was that it was ugly. It wasn't people I loved having a hard time or dealing with hard things, it was people I loved, every single one of them, every single character (except Giles who was gone), becoming people I didn't like at all.

I'm STILL angry about it. I'm STILL bitter.

And even though I love what the show used to be, knowing that this is what those people become DOES take away some of the shine when I watch the old episodes.

I think what makes me even angrier is all that toeing the party line and trying to explain away bad writing. I swear, if Joss had just said...okay, yes, this season was not well conceived and it didn't work the way we thought it would, and we made a mistake.... then I probably would have forgiven him and ME. Or at least been less angry. But what they did was blame US. They blamed the audience for not being deep enough or brave enough or whatever else to handle the "darkness." They blamed US for not "getting it." They blamed US for not liking this shoddy, sloppy, poorly plotted, badly paced, unfunny, mess. They excused themselves of any responsibility or culpability by saying...hey, if you don't like it, that's your problem. what we did was brilliant. it's not our fault if you can't see that.... And the arrogance. And the disrespectfulness of that makes me just completely enraged. Because not only did they take the characters I loved from me and turn them into these ugly, small, pathetic shells of what they were, they also told me that I should have thanked them for it. That I WOULD have thanked them if I weren't too stupid to "get it."

season 6 rage part 2

Date: 2004-06-30 11:07 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] smithereen.livejournal.com
This is my biggest problem with Joss, and the one thing I do not admire about him at all. He doesn't admit his mistakes. He did the same thing on a (MUCH) lesser scale with season 4 imo. Usually he and his shows are so fan and fandom friendly, but when he tries to spin his way out of bad writing by telling us...that was the point all along! we did that stuff you thought was sloppy, unengaging, incoherent writing on purpose! didn't you GET IT?...it feels like contempt for his audience. And I mean, I do understand the impulse to defend the work. I know sometimes when I get crit on my own writing I have the impulse to defend it, and go on and on about what I was trying to do, and how this has to stay because it's part of that, and this boring conversation is really important and didn't you see the underlying tensions, and I have a plan... And sometimes I'm right, and the crit is wrong. Cause I DO have a plan. But the fact is, sometimes the plan doesn't WORK. What you're trying to do doesn't come across, or isn't executed properly, or you get twisted around and lose sight of where you're going.

And at some point you have to stop defensively hovering over your messes, and say...okay...I screwed that up. Here's where I went wrong, and I'll do better next time. And maybe Joss is learning those things privately, and just not willing to admit them publicly. But it worries me when I see him rejecting the audience's reaction, and clinging to the spin, because if he really does believe the stuff he's saying then he's not going to learn a damn thing from those mistakes. And if he DOESN'T believe them (and I'm mostly convinced that he doesn't), then he's patronizing his audience, and assuming we're going to believe the spin, and accept that this is good writing just cause he says so. I personally don't appreciate that at all.

Gah. I'm sorry. I still can't talk about season 6 without it turning into this extravaganza of rage. And I know I sound like I’m blaming just Joss here. Which isn’t actually the way I feel. I blame all the writers. But ultimately the final decisions are his, so he sort of becomes the figure-head of blame. (Besides which I can talk about Joss semi-coherently because I do still have a lot of respect for him. Marti? I cannot talk about coherently.)
From: [identity profile] gwyn-r.livejournal.com
Tell us how you really feel! ;-)

No, I mean, I know exactly how you feel and agree with pretty much everything you've said, especially about how they keep trying to pin the failure on us as fans. I hate that bullshit about how we're too stupid to understand darkness -- well, we certainly got it in S2, didn't we? Might that imply, then, that you did something wrong? I really honestly believe that Joss knows this, but he has to save face for Marti, and I don't get why. Loyalty is good, but that kind of blind defense of her tactics in the face of losing half your audience is not a smart move. He's a clever guy, but he's too defensive about other people for his own good, and he's too quick with the verbal jabs sometimes when it comes to crit of his own stuff.

There *is* a difference between dark and ugly, and clearly we knew it -- S2 was dark and gorgeous, as was S5. We know what the real deal is -- and I don't need a bunch of academic snobs or defensive crew to tell me that I'm not clever enough to get the difference between dark and ugly. (I'm not sure why, but the academics who wax rhapsodic about it as though the lay audience was too moronic to get it really raises my hackles.) I think of all the incredible missed chances in that darkness of S6, where it was headed as far up as Tabula Rasa, and I get so depressed and angry.
(deleted comment)

Date: 2004-08-03 08:20 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gwyn-r.livejournal.com
I"ve never read that, but I will now! It sounds like at last there's someone else who's telling it like it is, instead of falling in line and agreeing that the emperor's new clothes are really spiffy. I always thought that the lip service about how it was moving the characters into adulthood was just such crap -- the truly adult thing would have been to have Xander go through with it with all his doubts, and really struggle with his own feelings. They took a serious step back with that.

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