Fic update F&F

[gwyn]

New Ciudad de Estrellas Part 5: Surrender is up, in which Dom and Brian face facts, get wired, and crash a party. 'member how I said my angst dial goes all the way to 11? ::turn, turn::

Thanks to mlyn and movies_michelle again for their beta help. I want to make a t-shirt from michelle's wonderful comment, "This is the most depressing post-coital EVER! And it's perfect!" Something to remind me when I'm feeling blue that at least someone enjoys that. (If I am slow with comments, please forgive me. I'm behind on email and just have a lot on my mind right now.)

Comments

[viverra-libro.livejournal.com]

Oh, I didn't think it was so agsty. Maybe more contemplative. I thought they were both dealing pretty well, and communicating, and hey, nothing was broken and nobody was shot, so all in all, I think this was a pretty positive chapter. I mean, you are writing them as guys that were straight until they ended up together, so the lack of post-coital cuddles is kind of mandatory; I was surprised they didn't get into an argument. Anyway, thanks much for the new chapter! It was most enjoyable.

[gwyn-r.livejournal.com]

No, the operative word here is *turn*ing. Can't get to the end of the dial with just one flick of the wrist.

I've always felt like slash doesn't deal enough with the sheer weirdness of the whole thing. How awkward and clumsy it would be, how freaked out guys might be to have their whole lives turned upside down. I'm really interested in the freaked out aspect. But I realize most people want it cleaner and neater than that.

[maygra.livejournal.com]

::guh:::

I'm sure I will have more coherent feedback later...but right now I'm just stunned and thrilled and overwhelmed. I love this chapter.

::guh:: seems entriely appropriate since my jaw is pretty much stuck to the floor.

[gwyn-r.livejournal.com]

Cool!

[black-bird-777.livejournal.com]

Haven't read yet - my goal today is getting sleep. But I'm completely excited. Reread the previous sections, and they just get better and better!

[gwyn-r.livejournal.com]

Thank you -- hey, I'm going to just plan on popping by on Thursday night, if after 7:30 is okay. Don't feel pressured to get home -- if you can't make it, that's okay. I'll get the book from you another time.

[spookycat4.livejournal.com]

OK, I loved this part. The angst factor is ratcheted up very nicely. And, I have to say how delighted I was to see the reference to one of the all-time coolest movie characters, K.S.

See, no spoiler. LOL

I do admit to being perverted enough to enjoy the idea of Gregory NOT keeping his hands off Dom's "mechanic." LOL

Kim

[gwyn-r.livejournal.com]

Thank you, Kim! Yeah, I wasn't sure if the K.S. reference would work or not, but I'm sure both of those boys have seen that movie. Plus he's become kind of a cultural touchstone.

[mlyn.livejournal.com]

I want to make a t-shirt from michelle's wonderful comment, "This is the most depressing post-coital EVER!"

*Rotf*

*hug*

[gwyn-r.livejournal.com]

Hugs back -- I got your file. It looks like today's going to be another busy work day, so I will try to squeeze some time in, though.

[mlyn.livejournal.com]

You rock. I'm going to send you a pint of Mallard's handmade ice cream. (How do you feel about rose ice cream?)

[gwyn-r.livejournal.com]

I do indeed like rose ice cream. Someday we should go downtown and hit the French bistro Le Pichet, and see if they have that honey lavender ice cream that nearly made me die from happiness.

Aren't you coming down, though, soonish?

[mlyn.livejournal.com]

Well, Friday, but I'm going to an AIGA thing at the Henry and will be bringing people along, so I can't stay for visits. :/

Then I'm back on the 11th and the 17th. I could stay the night and hang out on the 12th, if you're game. :)

[ixchel55.livejournal.com]

The first part of this was so incredibly bitter sweet.

...the most depressing post-coital EVER! Mmmm? No, not really, not for me anyway, but definitely angst-ridden. That explanation of Brian's about the look on his face, that he knows it can't last, that just tightened something up in my chest.

Dom's tentativeness, his uncertainty, but his willingness to let it ride for the time being because he can't - not.

And then the tension began to ratchet up at the party. There are some insane, twisted pseudo-people out there. When they're 'charming' it just seems to make them that much more surreal. (((shivers)))

You know, magra and khal's version of a 'usually in control' Dom is probably closer to my own mental picture of him, but your Dom is so fascinating and true to life, too. No one is that together all the time. Put enough stress on someone and they're bound to start leaking at the seams just a bit. Brian's just better with a needle and thread for sewing up those little leaks, I guess.

I like your Tanner, too. Not a saint but not an asshole, either. I guess what it comes down to is that your characters are so multi-dimensional, just like life.

And of course I took this opportunity to go back and read chapter 4 again before this one. I always like to get a 'running start' at a new chapter.

Thanks so much for taking the time to write and post in a time that has to be very difficult for you.

:::sending good thoughts:::

Ooops!

[ixchel55.livejournal.com]

maygra!!

[gwyn-r.livejournal.com]

I'm always so amazed when people say that Dom is always in control all the time -- he's so totally not in control! ;-) (Though I realize most people are busy looking at Brian, so it could be that I'm too busy looking at Dom!) I keep seeing this guy whose emotions are totally out there and on the surface -- his tears for Jesse, his rage at Brian's reveal, the way he acts with Mia, how chastened he is when Letty whacks him on the nose, how annoyed he is when Vince storms out on him, and just that scene at the party when he slaps that beer bottle out of Leon's hand always seem to me to show a guy who is so not controlled.

In fact, when we first saw the movie, my friend and I laughed at that every time Brian said it. Though I guess if what people are thinking of when they say control, they mean in charge, then no arguing there, because obviously he is the leader of the pack. But I've always been fascinated by how Vin plays the character; he could have chosen to play it as a guy who rules with an iron fist, but he went for a kind of paternal or big brother approach, and I guess that's what I see in him in the movie, and what I wanted to do here -- show this guy who really uses the badass criminal thing more as a cover, because it's so clearly not what he's like when he's around people in regular situations. To me that guy has no control, at least overtly, of his emotions. I like seeing people try to maintain, and being unable to do that, I guess because it's been such a big part of my life lately.

He's good at holding back info, especially from the new guy, but he just seems to have everything on the surface, he lets himself be... well, stripped of his exterior right away by Brian. Sorry, i'm going off on one of my meta tangents. Apologies. I just am fascinated by Dom, and I guess I see facets that others don't think exist. I'm not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing. Some people tell me it's a bad thing and I'm wrong, but... I do think they're there.

And I love Tanner -- now there's a guy who really doesn't get much of a chance! I am completely in like with Tanner, partly because I love Ted Levine when he plays cops. He just cracks my shit up in the movie, so I have to write him. Any guy who tries to smooth over a situation by making capuccinos -- decaff no less -- is someone who just needs to be more in the spotlight!

[ixchel55.livejournal.com]

No, I can see the difference between in charge and in control. I know that his emotions are all over the surface but he always seems to pull his shit together before it gets away from him. I did notice all the little incidents you noted and attributed them to 'emotional Mediterranean' types. (hmmm, ducks head at stereotyping), but I guess when taken all together they do look like sloppy impulse control.

Though I realize most people are busy looking at Brian...

Not really. I got into this fandom for the 'Vin' factor. I fell in lust with him in Pitch Black. I didn't know who the hell Paul Walker was. Pretty boys have never really been my thing. But strange things happened when I began writing in this fandom. Brian speaks to me much clearer than Dom, at least at first. Probably because Dom's character is so complex. Brian may be the one who's undercover with a mostly mysterious past, but he's pretty straight forward. He seems to make up his mind and go with it, with very few looks back over his shoulder.

I like seeing people try to maintain, and being unable to do that...

That's what makes interesting reading. You can have the most contorted and complex plot in the world, but if the characters aren't as equally complex and contorted, it's going to read pretty flat.

I meant to tell you, too, that I liked your Leon. He played a small part, but you did it just perfect from my point of view. I love Leon (and Johnny Strong). I think Leon probably isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer but he's far from the dullest. He knows his strengths and his limitations. He doesn't want to lead but he doesn't want to 'just' be a follower, either. I think he's very happy being Dom's Lt. And he's very, very loyal. I don't think he'd ever turn on someone he had thrown in with, he'd even have a hard time just walking away.

And as you can see, I don't mind the meta at all, in fact, I love it. It gives me new insights into the characters.

[gwyn-r.livejournal.com]

My computer is completely freaking out on me and I apologize for the stupid bad responses that aren't even formed. Soooo irritating!

but I guess when taken all together they do look like sloppy impulse control.

I think that's what baffles me about this control thing -- I'm like, control over what?! It's not his temper. It's not his emotions. It's not his girlfriend, even! He's the top dog in the racing thing, and he's clearly in charge of the truck ripoffs, but... I haven't figured out what other types of control, becuase he's so out there in terms of the impulses he acts on. Criminy, he's even outwardly scared by Brian's evasive driving skills! So I laugh about it a lot because I think if I was hanging around with someone who was all over the place with his emotions like that, I'd never be describing him as controlled -- cool possibly, when he needs to be (like when they are in the Trans' garage, and when he is asking Brian if he's a cop), but I'm not convinced that translates to control. I guess it's probably the definition thing -- it just depends on what someone's definition is of that control.

Not really. I got into this fandom for the 'Vin' factor. I fell in lust with him in Pitch Black. I didn't know who the hell Paul Walker was. Pretty boys have never really been my thing. But strange things happened when I began writing in this fandom. Brian speaks to me much clearer than Dom, at least at first. Probably because Dom's character is so complex

That makes sense. I've gotten used to, in the months I've been around this, hearing over and over "I'm a Brian girl" and variations, so often that I assume he's the only character being paid attention to! I'm very pairing oriented -- I just have no interest in being one or the other, even if I have a preference for one of the characters or actors -- to me, they can't be separated. But I do hear a lot of that thing that's troubled me from past fandoms: ___ is a big mean ugly brute and ___ is a lovely beauteous angel descended from heaven. I see it here too, but I'm holding steadfast to the "Dom is a cooler guy than people think" party line. But I can see how people would have a harder time hearing his voice, hearing who he is. I think that's actually true of a lot of Vin's characters, especially Riddick, for whom I've yet to see really represented as the guy I went crazy for back in 2000. I'm honestly not sure what it is -- that edge between Guido goombah and cultivated, clever guy? Or something else? I can't put a finger on it, but it seems to carry through a lot of his characters (at least in the better movies... I despair of his choices). I think Dom is one of the most complex, but I'm not certain why.

I meant to tell you, too, that I liked your Leon.

Oh, thank you! I really love Leon, he is in the background so much, but there's something in when he's trying to keep Vince off of Brian, or trying to rescue them during the final hijacking, that makes me think he's got a lot stronger role in the group than we know. He'll be playing a really important part in the final chapter of this thing, actually. Just because I love him so. I think your assessment of him is dead on.

[gwyn-r.livejournal.com]

BTW, I also meant to say before my post got eaten the first time, thanks for indulging me in talking character. I like to discuss, argue, chew on, what have you, and right now I'm trying so hard to avoid the real life things I need to deal with like talking to my sister's doctors and such. it's much more fun to back and forth with someone about the boys!

[paris7am.livejournal.com]

Pardon me for jumping right into your conversation.

I got into this fandom for the 'Vin' factor.
.................
I'm very pairing oriented -- I just have no interest in being one or the other, even if I have a preference for one of the characters or actors -- to me, they can't be separated.
.................

I wanted to add my wholehearted agreement to your thoughts here - Vin as Dom without a doubt pulled me in, but it's the pair of them that make it good for me. I wouldn't have anything to like about Brian except for what I see Dom seeing in him. The Pros Bodie and Ray are like that for me too - except that once I started seeing Ray from Bodie's perspective I *really* got into him...

Thank you for yet another incredible chapter, Gwyn. You write their "masculine" side with such open truth.

[gwyn-r.livejournal.com]

except that once I started seeing Ray from Bodie's perspective I *really* got into him...

I really, really like that distinction, a lot. I think that's a huge factor for me about liking Brian, when I'm not terrifically impressed with PW otherwise. As Brian with Dom, he is perfect and I see all the wonderful things I might not otherwise. That's what I love about slash!

Thanks so much for the comment on the story. I spent all my life around guys, it wasn't till I was into media fandom that I had more than one female friend, so the mysterious nature of guys is what interests me. I think way too often people think being masculine only means speaking tersely and never speaking your feelings, but guys are way more complicated than that. Especially two like these two.

[mackiemesser.livejournal.com]

I dunno that I'd consider this depressing post-coital, especially given the pre-coital coital setting...Realistic and serious, with a side of discombobulation is what I get from it. Hell, if it'd been fluffy in the context of this story, I'd be scoffing loud enough for you to hear me over lo these many miles.

That said, I really enjoyed this installment, particularly the characterization of Gregory. He carried a lot of weight in such a short appearance.

I don't have anything to add to the "in control"/"in charge" discussion, other than to say I find it an interesting read. And have been pondering the difference between self-possession and control.

At least the Lumet film looks like it'll give Vin a chance to show he can do something other than make things go splodey.

[gwyn-r.livejournal.com]

I'm glad you enjoyed it. And Tony -- I really had fun working him up in my mind, and was glad to finally get the chance to write him down. I definitely like the notion of a distinction between self possession and control -- I think Dom can be very self-possessed at times, when he needs it (especially in the criminal part of his life), very cool. But more often than not, I think he doesn't have much control over his feelings, or showing them. he might be able to keep a grip on some of the things about his emotions, but his temper, it seems, never. It doesn't make him stupid, but... to say he's too controlled to do dumb things always struck me as one of the more off the wall remarks Brian made. But we are so blinded when we are in love...

[mackiemesser.livejournal.com]

to say he's too controlled to do dumb things always struck me as one of the more off the wall remarks Brian made

Yeah, it is. Disciplined, maybe--because Dom is that. Aware of responsibility, too. But not controlled. It's not terribly controlled to be constantly putting yourself at risk to feed the adrenaline high.

Of course, you'd want to have something that sounds halfway plausible if you were trying to convince your cop-boss to back off, or if you're a screen writer trying to find a word to get a certain quality across...

[spasticat.livejournal.com]

I've been enjoying all of the installments of Ciudad de Estrellas especially this one. The drama is intense yet you also write so many great moments where Dom and Brian reflect and angst over all that's going on. It feels so real and that's what I like about your writing.

What really got me were the unresolved questions between Dom and Brian and how they can't quite articulate out loud to each other what they really feel...or fear. That is the "realness" that gets to me with this series.

Now about that post coital...damn, but that was a kicker. Fabulous job on capturing the not so rosy moods and musings that result after a romp in the sack.

[gwyn-r.livejournal.com]

Thank you, sweetie! I'm especially preeny about the real life comment -- it's what I like most, even if it means that things tend to the bittersweet or sad, just because I think real life is more that way. Real life with a very heightened sense of fantasy, i guess. But I think you and i talked about that a while ago, after you posted your story. I can't imagine it could ever be as easy for these two as we slashers like to do with relationships. I really wanted to take the time to do that in this, get into the awkward sex, the weird bad conversations, the not knowing and not understanding.

[nullabona.livejournal.com]

Wow! I just kinda stumbled into this fandom and have read very little so far but I can say that this story is both love and fear about what could be categorized as rare-slash. I may never get enough. Your take on these characters is wonderfully insightful. The strong emotional connection is there from the get-go but you also show how these rough-and-tumble guys would lock horns (and other things) when sucker punched with actually falling for each other. I like how they freak out over the gay thing, why not? They manly –men whose very self worth is closely tied up in their swagger, rep, crew, weapons, cars, bodies and masculinity-- this is a refreshing homage to vintage slash, far to many writer’s take a PC approach homosexuality often at the expense of what’s at the essence of their characters. You’re keeping it real. Lovely work. I can’t wait for more. Nulla

[gwyn-r.livejournal.com]

Thank you so much, Nulla, that's incredibly kind of you to say! I'm especially happy that you think they haven't erred too far on the other side of being basically guys -- I think way too often people mistake machismo and phony toughness for masculinity, when they're not necessarily the same thing. Guys are infinite in their different aspects of guyness! And there's a lot of room for playing with what these two would have to deal with. That's what I think is so fun about them.