Visual vocabularies
Jun. 14th, 2005 01:05 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
gwynVery few of my vids have ever been discussed -- at least, anywhere that I knew about it -- and I've never been one of those vidders who gets rec'd/pimped a lot. So it was a huge surprise to me when ![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
yhlee wrote up some thoughts on my last VCR-made vid, My Beautiful Reward, for Firefly. She posted her thoughts to her LJ today and then dropped a link in the vidding LJ -- one of those places I always feel like I simply do not exist. It's rare for the online stuff to get noticed, but the old VCR stuff... that's even tougher.
I still made vids on VCRs for a long time after online vidding had become viable, and like most VCR vidders, my past work has been mostly marginalized because so few people have seen it, and newer fans don't seek out the past. If you weren't part of the cool kid clique of computer vidders and vidding cabals and whatever from back at the beginning of online vid communities, you sometimes feel as if you're worse than a newbie -- you're an oldie, with bad source and no effects, and your vids don't look cool, so you're not worthy, and all of that. It's something I've talked about with other old VCR vidders, that feeling like you're in some weird gray area between unheard-of newbie and irrelevant old-timer no one's heard from since the Civil War. Unless you're willing to spend the countless hours recutting your old vids (and not get much in the way of new stuff made), you can forget about people wanting to see your vids, even if you digitize them and put them up online. So having someone not just notice, but take the time to write up a review of an older vid, is like a hefty shot of vitamin B right in the ol' keister. It's a total pick-me-up, and makes me feel like it might even be worth remastering that vid with the good source (and allowing me to fix a problem that I've always wished I could fix, as well as get rid of that annoying static burst that now mars my master tape).
Too, I find commentary about work that I do really fascinating -- no matter if it's positive or negative. Sometimes the negative can be frustrating as hell if it's miles away from any kind of intentions I had, but that doesn't make it invalid. And in-depth commentary is so rare for anything, especially vids, that it's a true treat to hear someone dissect the art, think about the meaning behind it, speculate about the intentions. I really enjoy that, because it gives me perspective on what I'm doing I might not otherwise get. And that always helps you when you're working on your next project (at least, I think so).
It's also great to see comments like this because they're the antithesis of something that's been bothering me more than a little lately. When I first started out in media fandom, I encountered something that I had never really seen much in SF fandom -- there was a tendency among people to discount their input or mitigate their opinions by saying "I'm just a consumer, so I know my opinion doesn't matter" or something to that effect. Fanfic writers were becoming so lionized and inappropriately worshipped through the immediacy of the Net that those fans who didn't write (or, later, vid when it became something more people could do easily) really truly believed they had no right to state opinions, to participate in discussions. My abreaction to this got me into more than a few fights with other people. In relation to the growth of the negative BNF phenomenon (where before, being a BNF wasn't really that pejorative; SF cons have always had fan guests of honor to acknowledge people who contribute a lot to the community) solely because someone wrote fanfic, it served to make a lot of people feel like being "just a consumer" was a dirty word.
There really wouldn't be much of a fannish economy, or community, without the larger foundation of consumers. And by elevating writers or vidders above everyone else because they supply the fannish product, it leads people to believe that other important aspects of the community -- archives, capture sites, meta discussion pages, forums -- are somehow insignificant. And that leads to people believing that input methods -- feedback, recs, announcement lists, etc. -- are even less vital (and it doesn't help when producers can't be bothered to say a quick thank you for feedback or misuse their status on lists and forums to bully the "just consumers"). As vidding has grown in importance and availability as a fannish product, I've seen the level of input from the larger consumer base drop a lot. Most vids were shown at cons, and you had to connect to other fans to order tape collections, etc. The facelessness of vid distribution today, where we're basically all vending machines who spend a shitload of money to provide free product to the consumers, didn't exist; it was a more one to one transaction then, and at cons you were more likely to hear feedback from people about your vids.
I rarely heard people say things like "I'm not a vidder so I can't give you feedback on this vid." But today, I hear it all the time. Hardly anyone who isn't a vidder, hangs around with vidders, or who hasn't had some visual studies (either as an artist or through film studies) background seems willing to just share their feelings about a vid without tons of apology, or worse, self-deprecation. And few of us get the chance to develop that visual vocabulary unless we do take up vidding; so the gulf is even wider when people feel they have no right to their opinion. Somehow, through its ease of use and ubiquity in the online world, vidding has developed into this apparently rarefied skill that most "just consumers" think they have no right to comment on, as if "I really liked this" isn't good enough.
And sometimes, yeah, we make fun of people who say things like "nice use of vid clips" because the genericness of such comments doesn't really do much in terms of helping a vidder know where they succeeded or failed. But those comments mostly do come from the heart, of someone who really doesn't know the lingo but wants to say how they feel about the vid. They feel as if "I liked it" isn't enough, when in fact, that may be the only comment we get about a vid, so that simple statement could mean all the difference in how accepted or appreciated a vidder might feel. When I first started putting my vids online, the deafening silence was really discouraging. I was just this oldtime vidder with no name to most of these people, and they had no interest in checking my stuff out. But gradually I began to get a few comments here and there, and almost always, they are prefaced with "I don't know how to vid so I have nothing worthwhile to say, but I liked it." Often that's followed with surprisingly astute comments about something in particular that struck them. And they don't even realize they're making solid comments.
The thing is, most people don't write, either. But we grow up with writing, at least a little, in school, whereas we may never have the chance to build a visual vocabulary. You combine that with the general feeling that being only a viewer is such a lowly thing, and you get a frustratingly skewed fannish economy, where the traditional currencies of feedback and recs and reviews and discussions disappear, leaving the producers to keep spending exhorbitant sums to offer treats, yet get no reward in the way they might be used to, or have seen in things like responses to fanfic. In the real world, it's the person who does the good action who gets the treat as the reward; in fandom, it's the larger population, and the person who offers the treat may only have that one piece of "lame feedback" as their attagirl reward. Fandom is the only place I know of where everything is expected free of charge, at great cost to some of the artists, and no one has any obligation to provide anything in return. Vidding is extra weird because not only is there no produce/reward system, but the people who might want to provide a reward in the form of a thank you don't feel they have a right, simply because they don't know the methodology.
And I don't really know of a way to build that confidence in people that their comments, however feeble they might think they are, are usually more than welcome to most vidders (and especially to us oldtimers who came from VCR vidding and still feel like so much of our past is marginalized). In so many cases, in the places we announce vids, we will never hear a peep from the audience that's DLing the vids; some of those folks may simply not care, but a lot of them, I find, don't ever say anything because they're afraid to. That's a very difficult situation to overcome. People can be shy about sending comments to their favorite writers, but it's not because they feel they haven't got the right words to respond with -- it tends to be more of a starstruck thing. In vidding, though, it's not usually shyness, but a sense that by not being a vidder, they are unworthy or incapable of valuable responses. They don't have the right words, they think. They don't know the technical details or the methods used -- but heck, everyone knows what words on paper are.
Having someone write lengthy comments about one of my vids has been a huge treat; of course, someone might point out that she's a vidder herself, so it comes easily. Which is probably true, but I also don't believe that it's necessarily the way it has to be. I think anyone who watches movies, TV shows, as we fans do, has the ability to analyze or comment on a vid -- we just may not know we have that ability. Not everyone can go to Vividcon, or the review panels at some cons. But a lot of discussion has happened in LJs and elsewhere online, that can help people build at least a tiny bit of the vocabulary and style concepts most vidders use. It can't, however, overcome that feeling of "I'm just a viewer/not a vidder," and sadly, that's the truly difficult one to overcome. Saying "I liked this vid because it's really pretty and the way you used the effects made it feel creepy" is something most people can orient themselves to, but they have to believe they have a right to say it.
So I also think some of the work has to be done by vidders, just in terms of letting people know how much feedback of any kind is appreciated. People have to feel like they're not "just" consumers, but consumers who are the foundation of the fannish economy -- and that their currency of feedback is valuable. It's okay not to have the technical knowledge if you know what you like and don't like, because that's the basis for the opinion. Technical knowledge or experience is simply an additional aspect, but it doesn't make the feeling at the core any different: you like it or you don't. And that's really where responses to any kind of art begin.
ETA:sdwolfpup has an excellent post now about vidding feedback 101, that addresses the issue of people feeling like they don't have the "skills" to comment on vids, even if they really want to.
yhlee wrote up some thoughts on my last VCR-made vid, My Beautiful Reward, for Firefly. She posted her thoughts to her LJ today and then dropped a link in the vidding LJ -- one of those places I always feel like I simply do not exist. It's rare for the online stuff to get noticed, but the old VCR stuff... that's even tougher. I still made vids on VCRs for a long time after online vidding had become viable, and like most VCR vidders, my past work has been mostly marginalized because so few people have seen it, and newer fans don't seek out the past. If you weren't part of the cool kid clique of computer vidders and vidding cabals and whatever from back at the beginning of online vid communities, you sometimes feel as if you're worse than a newbie -- you're an oldie, with bad source and no effects, and your vids don't look cool, so you're not worthy, and all of that. It's something I've talked about with other old VCR vidders, that feeling like you're in some weird gray area between unheard-of newbie and irrelevant old-timer no one's heard from since the Civil War. Unless you're willing to spend the countless hours recutting your old vids (and not get much in the way of new stuff made), you can forget about people wanting to see your vids, even if you digitize them and put them up online. So having someone not just notice, but take the time to write up a review of an older vid, is like a hefty shot of vitamin B right in the ol' keister. It's a total pick-me-up, and makes me feel like it might even be worth remastering that vid with the good source (and allowing me to fix a problem that I've always wished I could fix, as well as get rid of that annoying static burst that now mars my master tape).
Too, I find commentary about work that I do really fascinating -- no matter if it's positive or negative. Sometimes the negative can be frustrating as hell if it's miles away from any kind of intentions I had, but that doesn't make it invalid. And in-depth commentary is so rare for anything, especially vids, that it's a true treat to hear someone dissect the art, think about the meaning behind it, speculate about the intentions. I really enjoy that, because it gives me perspective on what I'm doing I might not otherwise get. And that always helps you when you're working on your next project (at least, I think so).
It's also great to see comments like this because they're the antithesis of something that's been bothering me more than a little lately. When I first started out in media fandom, I encountered something that I had never really seen much in SF fandom -- there was a tendency among people to discount their input or mitigate their opinions by saying "I'm just a consumer, so I know my opinion doesn't matter" or something to that effect. Fanfic writers were becoming so lionized and inappropriately worshipped through the immediacy of the Net that those fans who didn't write (or, later, vid when it became something more people could do easily) really truly believed they had no right to state opinions, to participate in discussions. My abreaction to this got me into more than a few fights with other people. In relation to the growth of the negative BNF phenomenon (where before, being a BNF wasn't really that pejorative; SF cons have always had fan guests of honor to acknowledge people who contribute a lot to the community) solely because someone wrote fanfic, it served to make a lot of people feel like being "just a consumer" was a dirty word.
There really wouldn't be much of a fannish economy, or community, without the larger foundation of consumers. And by elevating writers or vidders above everyone else because they supply the fannish product, it leads people to believe that other important aspects of the community -- archives, capture sites, meta discussion pages, forums -- are somehow insignificant. And that leads to people believing that input methods -- feedback, recs, announcement lists, etc. -- are even less vital (and it doesn't help when producers can't be bothered to say a quick thank you for feedback or misuse their status on lists and forums to bully the "just consumers"). As vidding has grown in importance and availability as a fannish product, I've seen the level of input from the larger consumer base drop a lot. Most vids were shown at cons, and you had to connect to other fans to order tape collections, etc. The facelessness of vid distribution today, where we're basically all vending machines who spend a shitload of money to provide free product to the consumers, didn't exist; it was a more one to one transaction then, and at cons you were more likely to hear feedback from people about your vids.
I rarely heard people say things like "I'm not a vidder so I can't give you feedback on this vid." But today, I hear it all the time. Hardly anyone who isn't a vidder, hangs around with vidders, or who hasn't had some visual studies (either as an artist or through film studies) background seems willing to just share their feelings about a vid without tons of apology, or worse, self-deprecation. And few of us get the chance to develop that visual vocabulary unless we do take up vidding; so the gulf is even wider when people feel they have no right to their opinion. Somehow, through its ease of use and ubiquity in the online world, vidding has developed into this apparently rarefied skill that most "just consumers" think they have no right to comment on, as if "I really liked this" isn't good enough.
And sometimes, yeah, we make fun of people who say things like "nice use of vid clips" because the genericness of such comments doesn't really do much in terms of helping a vidder know where they succeeded or failed. But those comments mostly do come from the heart, of someone who really doesn't know the lingo but wants to say how they feel about the vid. They feel as if "I liked it" isn't enough, when in fact, that may be the only comment we get about a vid, so that simple statement could mean all the difference in how accepted or appreciated a vidder might feel. When I first started putting my vids online, the deafening silence was really discouraging. I was just this oldtime vidder with no name to most of these people, and they had no interest in checking my stuff out. But gradually I began to get a few comments here and there, and almost always, they are prefaced with "I don't know how to vid so I have nothing worthwhile to say, but I liked it." Often that's followed with surprisingly astute comments about something in particular that struck them. And they don't even realize they're making solid comments.
The thing is, most people don't write, either. But we grow up with writing, at least a little, in school, whereas we may never have the chance to build a visual vocabulary. You combine that with the general feeling that being only a viewer is such a lowly thing, and you get a frustratingly skewed fannish economy, where the traditional currencies of feedback and recs and reviews and discussions disappear, leaving the producers to keep spending exhorbitant sums to offer treats, yet get no reward in the way they might be used to, or have seen in things like responses to fanfic. In the real world, it's the person who does the good action who gets the treat as the reward; in fandom, it's the larger population, and the person who offers the treat may only have that one piece of "lame feedback" as their attagirl reward. Fandom is the only place I know of where everything is expected free of charge, at great cost to some of the artists, and no one has any obligation to provide anything in return. Vidding is extra weird because not only is there no produce/reward system, but the people who might want to provide a reward in the form of a thank you don't feel they have a right, simply because they don't know the methodology.
And I don't really know of a way to build that confidence in people that their comments, however feeble they might think they are, are usually more than welcome to most vidders (and especially to us oldtimers who came from VCR vidding and still feel like so much of our past is marginalized). In so many cases, in the places we announce vids, we will never hear a peep from the audience that's DLing the vids; some of those folks may simply not care, but a lot of them, I find, don't ever say anything because they're afraid to. That's a very difficult situation to overcome. People can be shy about sending comments to their favorite writers, but it's not because they feel they haven't got the right words to respond with -- it tends to be more of a starstruck thing. In vidding, though, it's not usually shyness, but a sense that by not being a vidder, they are unworthy or incapable of valuable responses. They don't have the right words, they think. They don't know the technical details or the methods used -- but heck, everyone knows what words on paper are.
Having someone write lengthy comments about one of my vids has been a huge treat; of course, someone might point out that she's a vidder herself, so it comes easily. Which is probably true, but I also don't believe that it's necessarily the way it has to be. I think anyone who watches movies, TV shows, as we fans do, has the ability to analyze or comment on a vid -- we just may not know we have that ability. Not everyone can go to Vividcon, or the review panels at some cons. But a lot of discussion has happened in LJs and elsewhere online, that can help people build at least a tiny bit of the vocabulary and style concepts most vidders use. It can't, however, overcome that feeling of "I'm just a viewer/not a vidder," and sadly, that's the truly difficult one to overcome. Saying "I liked this vid because it's really pretty and the way you used the effects made it feel creepy" is something most people can orient themselves to, but they have to believe they have a right to say it.
So I also think some of the work has to be done by vidders, just in terms of letting people know how much feedback of any kind is appreciated. People have to feel like they're not "just" consumers, but consumers who are the foundation of the fannish economy -- and that their currency of feedback is valuable. It's okay not to have the technical knowledge if you know what you like and don't like, because that's the basis for the opinion. Technical knowledge or experience is simply an additional aspect, but it doesn't make the feeling at the core any different: you like it or you don't. And that's really where responses to any kind of art begin.
ETA:
sdwolfpup has an excellent post now about vidding feedback 101, that addresses the issue of people feeling like they don't have the "skills" to comment on vids, even if they really want to.
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2005-06-14 10:57 pm (UTC):-)
no subject
Date: 2005-06-15 04:27 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-06-14 11:01 pm (UTC)Vidding is very intimidating to the non-vidder - even if one is, as I am, quite comfortable with the technology (and most fans probably aren't), there's also the aesthetic. Most of us really don't learn to analyze film the way we do writing; it's a different beast. Sometimes I hear vidders talking and I feel like some sort of neanderthal, or idiot - circular flows, themes, motion, oh I don't even know all the words - I sit there thinking duh, I didn't see any of that, I have no idea what they're talking about, but I thought the vid was really cool - it drew me in, touched me, moved me. Non-vidders hear that kind of "technical" vidding discourse - and see the increasing technical complexity of vids - and we know we can't really contribute or understand. And so the temptation is simply to give up - why bother, when I don't have anything useful or insightful to say?
But you make me believe that maybe someone like me still has something of value to offer, despite my "ignorance" - because it's so very true, and so easy to forget, that "you like it or you don't" - nothiing more than that - is indeed where responses to any kind of art begin - what a wonderful way of putting it. In the first instance, it's all about emotional response; every single one of us has that, and most of us have the vocabulary to talk about it. And you also remind me that that kind of discourse is part of fandom, part of community - "feedback" is more than just a critical response, it's a way of interacting, it's what keeps this world from being a series of nameless faceless transactions. Feedback, discourse, of any sort enhances this, even if it's not particularly "educated."
Anyway, you've really made me think - I will take this to heart. Vids were the aspect of fandom that took me longest to learn to appreciate, but I have, and now I love them. I'd like to let some of the vidders know the pleasure they've given me ... (and of course you are high among those - many of my very favorite vids in the world are old VHS vids, and many of them are yours. So for me you most definitely exist :-)
no subject
Date: 2005-06-14 11:58 pm (UTC)Vidders do give feedback to other vidders, but non-vidders very seldom do. I know that Gwyn doesn't agree with me on this, but I loved the old Escapade feedback forms which were handed out to everyone at the show and asked things like how well the knew and liked the sources, becuase it caught a cross-section viewers that is impossible to get comments on any other way. Not all of it was nice, or pretty, or by folks who knew or liked the fandom or song or had a vidding vocabulary, as a matter of fact much of it wasn't. Several years of that helped me see what I could work on and what I wanted to work on versus what I was comfortable with the way it is. That, as much as anything, has left me comfortable with where I am as a vidder. I'm very glad I'm not starting out now as a vidder because I don't see anyway of getting that kind cross-sectional commentary these days.
no subject
Date: 2005-06-15 04:36 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-06-15 04:32 am (UTC)I agree with Carol below, in that to me, the nontechnical person can be a joy to get responses from. I love seeing my work through their eyes, their feelings. While nothing makes me feel more boastful and proud than impressing a vidder i like, that reaction from someone who may not know how I achieved that, but I made them feel it... that is really when I know I've succeeded (or failed, as the case may be).
no subject
Date: 2005-06-15 06:28 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-06-14 11:02 pm (UTC)There really wouldn't be much of a fannish economy, or community, without the larger foundation of consumers.
So, so true.
no subject
Date: 2005-06-15 04:37 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-06-14 11:50 pm (UTC)I do often feel like I can't give you any feedback that's much more meaningful than "Wow, that was really good." I will try. (And I still need to send you an envelope for your LFN vids...)
no subject
Date: 2005-06-15 04:40 am (UTC)I think if I could wave a magic wand over fandom and change anything, it would be either this feeling people have that "wow, this is good" is lame and not worthwhile... or it would be homonym abuse in fanfic, I'm not sure. I would have to do eeny meeny miney mo.
no subject
Date: 2005-06-15 01:38 am (UTC)For my part, I often feel like I'm surrounded by eloquent people and it's so *haaaard* to be coherent. I know I'm just being silly. Often my favorite thing about a vid is that I don't get it all immediately -- that it makes me feel, and then makes me want to think about what I feel. The whole point of a gutpunch is that you don't see it coming. If you did, you'd swerve to avoid i, and lose all the impact.
no subject
Date: 2005-06-15 04:42 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-06-15 04:57 am (UTC)Love the new layout - it's pretty and spring-like and airy. Very nice!
no subject
Date: 2005-06-15 04:36 pm (UTC)I'm still working on Measure. I know where I need to go, it's just... very hard getting there.
no subject
Date: 2005-06-15 05:06 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-06-15 04:37 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-06-16 12:24 am (UTC)I think
And, of course, this can go for fanfic. You have more discerning taste than I do, and while part of that may just be different personalities, there's also the fact that you're a copy editor and can't put aside your training when you read something that's technically shitty.
So I think people have a *sense* for how technically intricate vids are, and they're afraid to open their mouths and start talking about it and be seen as someone who thinks "Water Boy" was a good movie. I think that's a valid fear. Sure, the belief that their opinion isn't valid at all is going too far with that fear, but I don't think it's *entirely* misplaced.
no subject
Date: 2005-06-16 06:42 pm (UTC)Yeah, i get what you're saying abou the fear of looking like a dork who thinks Water Boy is good filmmaking. And that does tie into fic, of course, but I think that at least having a starting out point -- I liked it, I didn't, I'm not sure what I think of this, or maybe even my favorite, I can't say that I liked or disliked this, but it was fascinating to watch and I admire the work [this being the kind of thing I can say about movies like, for instance, Requiem for a Dream, where I can't say I enjoyed it, and I didn't not enjoy it, but I sure admired the technique] -- means that a person can take that leap into making comments on what provoked that feeling. Even if they like it for what we might think is spurious reasons ("Adam Sandler is so funny and sophisticated!"), at least we know *why*. So the dialog can start from there.
If anything, that's what fb can provide me with -- a chance to have a dialog. That's really missing for me in fandom these days. Even if I disagree wildly with someone's tastes, I'd like to at least be able to talk about it.
no subject
Date: 2005-06-16 08:05 pm (UTC)Even if I disagree wildly with someone's tastes, I'd like to at least be able to talk about it.
I've been reading fic lately and trying to give feedback for it, but occasionally I don't on purpose. Thinking of that, I realize that I don't want to tell someone I thought their fic was poorly written. It's not entirely that I don't want to hurt someone's feelings, but mostly that I don't want some big fannish uprising against me. I mean, I'm a newbie in the fandoms where I've been reading. I don't have the foundation of being a long-time fan or big name status to protect me. Maybe that's part of it as well. (Or maybe I'm just a pussy. :)
no subject
Date: 2005-06-15 01:36 pm (UTC)I agree that being "a consumer" doesn't preclude, or shouldn't, one's comments from being valued and valuable. Hell, how many of us produce or direct TV shows and movies? Doesn't stop us from commenting! If Joss Whedon had been in my house over the weekend he'd have gotten an earful on Firefly. Okay, so it would have been a positive earful, but just because I don't write/direct/produce TV shows doesn't mean I can't appreciate the genius that went into the episode "Out of Gas."
HOWever, as a writer, I really resent when people start tearing down stories and they *don't* write. If they were writers, they would realise that some of the things they suggest are impracticable or, worse, untrue to the mood of the story or would result in something very cliched or stupid if implemented. Sometimes (just sometimes? *g*) writers are trying to do something specific or different or maybe they just don't want to go for the easy out (or maybe they do). I am NOT saying that all feedback should be positive or that if you don't have something nice to say, don't say it at all - just that if you are a writer you have some nuts-and-bolts experience with story construction and problems that non-writers don't have.
OTOH (I have many many hands - just call me Kali) it often takes a non-writer (and, I would think, a non-vidder) to provide the kind of forest feedback that the writer (or vidder) might be lost in the trees over. I absolutely could not write long stuff without feedback/beta from non-writers because I fixate on details and they have a way of saying, "Yeah, but, hon, um, the licence plate is fine and all but... where'd they get the CAR?"
And last - I agree that one's response is the key. Sometimes it can't be explained why one story works and one doesn't, or why a vid for a movie I never even saw still moved me to tears. The heart, the feelings, the emotion - many technical aspects can go by the wayside if the piece is genuine and touches those emotions honestly - and in some cases technical knowledge can get in the way. I always loved thinking about the saying about if you could explain how a rainbow existed, you never really saw it in the first place.
babble... sorry...
no subject
Date: 2005-06-15 08:03 pm (UTC)Having worked as a critic, but never as a filmmaker, I don't necessarily think that my lack of having made a movie would preclude me from giving criticism on movies. But I think what you're talking about is something more insidious than "if you can't do, criticize" -- at least, I think what you're talking about is the familiarity in fandom that tends to give people the feeling they can rip things to shreds with impugnity because it's all part of the great big fannish circle. And I do see that -- but I think those people would probably always do that, no matter what. Fandom just gives them a license to be haughty and mean. And of course there's not a lot you can do about people like that -- they're everywhere, and I can't help thinking that in some cases, they're frustrated writers themselves --people who get more out of the act of crit than of putting themselves to the task of writing. The problem with fanfic, of course, is that it's a lot of amateur writers, some of whom are trying to get better and do a pro level job, and some of whom are simply in it for the BSO thrill or what have you.
I had a situation recently where a BNF of one of my fandoms, sent me all this damning with faint praise stuff. And a lot of it was related to my style of writing, which she didn't seem to approve of (that I was doing it wrong, or something. Also, if, apparently, it's not her take on the characters, then it's the wrong take... something I have no real patience for. I think in a lot of ways this is all too common in fandom, and it means that people think they have a license to go after writers or vidders or whatever -- the "I know more than you" syndrome, even if they don't know more than you. Or "my way or the highway." If they're frustrated writers, this could become even more vicious. (And I should add that I know some people who are smart and funny and talented... but they can't write. And that leaves a lot of them either trying to write stuff that gets trounced by others, or they turn to criticizing others in their frustration if they recognize they can't really write.)
And you know, of course, how poor Mag 7 is for good quality writing, and I think that sometimes in that fandom, the truth is, people just don't have a clue what's good and bad -- they really honestly don't know the difference. There are only a handfull of decent writers in there, but I think most of the fans are still happy as pigs in shit. They get their hits. And then the rest, who want something more, might be more willing to rip the writers apart -- even if they don't write themselves -- simply because they think it will give them more of what they want.
Ah, I could go on about this forever, it's probably best I stop or I will make a worse ass of myself than usual.
no subject
Date: 2005-06-18 08:41 am (UTC)Also, some of the things I do like I don't necessarily feel signify quality. I really like when the vidder (while still giving me that "aboutness") matches the images to the lyrics, which is something I've heard vidders dismiss as too cheap. And I'm so affected by the song choices that it's hard for me to be objective about the rest of the vids.
In short, whenever I feedback vids, I'm afraid of sounding like the grandfather of one of my choir-singing friends, who said, "Oh, you were terrific, I heard your voice above the rest!" when singing louder than the others is a big no-no in a choir...
I do still feedback, but I admit it's usually with a bit of fear in my heart.
no subject
Date: 2005-06-18 09:30 am (UTC)- Someone posts a vid link somewhere.
- I go and start the download.
- I jump to the next links.
- Some time later, the download is done but I forgot about it already.
- Weeks later, I tumble over the vid, watch it and am delighted! But there's no easy way to drop a line to the vidder then, because there's no email address or website given. And so I show hubby the vid and then close it.
I know that I'm too lazy. But it's really much easier to press "Reply" in a mailer or lj than to research later who did the vid and what hir contact address is *sigh*
Most vids I've seen have been very enjoyable, and I'm always impressed by all the work that must have gone into it. So please, dear vidders, take this as a group thank-you - VIDS ARE GREAT!
no subject
Date: 2009-10-21 08:48 pm (UTC)Writing about vids in an academic capacity has meant doing a certain amount of showing vids to non-fans, and seeing how much trouble many of those non-fans--even very smart and media-savvy non-fans--have with vids reminds me all over again just how much WORK we all do when we watch vids. It's not the same kind of work that vidders do when making vids, but it's no less important, and the willingness to do that work is one of the things that makes us fans. I worry sometimes that the recent surge in academic interest in and writing on vids is going to end up privileging texts and authors--vids and vidders--without paying enough attention to reception, to vidwatchers, to the work that we do when we watch vids--work that we may do unconsciously, that we do even when we don't have a fancy vocabulary for what that work is or how it happens.
...all of which is maybe just a really convoluted way of saying IAWTP. ::facepalm::
no subject
Date: 2009-10-21 10:51 pm (UTC)And I share your concern about privileging texts and authors -- it's been this constant nagging concern in my entire time in media fandom, and one that seems to be getting bigger for me, not smaller, as the years go by. And yet, I have no concrete ideas about how it can be addressed, assuming people want to address it at all.
Fandom -- why so fraught?