Before I was so rudely interrupted

[gwyn]

Week before last, I had posted a new Buffy- and Angelverse vid, though all I could get was a regular small QuickTime window, unfortunately, and feochadn was going to see if she could get a better compression for me with her apps. Even though I was unknowingly shortly to be on my way to emergency surgery, I was busy bemoaning the fact that I keep getting less and less feedback the more I vid. Wah, woe was me, and I was crying in my beer and Jo told me she couldn't get a better large file for me (I think it's the same iMovie filters I used on this vid that have caused me such a headache, too) and it was very woe, woe, woe. I promised people I'd try to get a bigger, better file if I could. But then I got kind of... you know, sidetracked.

Sorry for the delay if you were waiting for that larger vid file. Female of the Species is there now in a Divx avi file, mostly toned down on the pixelization problems but at the expense of a large file -- it's about 60MB, I'm afraid. I've got both the smaller QT file there as well if you'd rather grab that.

I was also kind of making this the last vid of my yearlong experiment to see if putting your URL or email address will help with feedback. Everyone insists that it does, but I've never believed it at all, and I can now safely say that it makes no difference whatsoever. I've done different approaches in subsets of different vid types: large, relatively current fandoms with mixed-interest followings, small fandoms with mixed-interest followings, large fandoms with devoted vid followings, small fandoms with devoted vid followings, and small fandoms with nearly no vid following, and not one subset has shown a difference in response. And maybe it's just that I suck and make bad vids, or whatever, but the only noticeable difference in feedback levels have come from... recs or links. This has been especially borne out by a vid I made in a super small fandom with a not very big vid audience (After Rain), where I did not put a URL or email address -- I've received more feedback on the vid because it's been recced in a couple of LJs by people who did not know the series at all, and was mentioned in a lot of Escapade review panels. Many of the feedbackers were fans of the series, but did not watch vids in it; a lot of them just tend to follow any of the recs made by certain people, and one of the recs was pretty awesome.

So, my theory was proven (you can announce a new vid till the cows come home, but it makes almost no difference unless your friends and viewers mention your vid in their recs or LJ space), but that is not exactly satisfying. I hoped I'd be wrong, that putting the URL at the end of the vid, or an email, would cause a significant result, but it hasn't. Nor has making my password more readily available made a difference as everyone insisted it would -- it just reminds you how many *more* people access your vid and will never say anything to you about it one way or another.

Of course, I suppose if I could ever care for a show like Supernatural, maybe that would change, since that seems to be all anyone wants to watch these days. One shot of the burning woman on the ceiling, and I'd be golden...

Comments

[ficbyzee.livejournal.com]

You know, I really don't recall any change in feedback for the one Supernatural vid I did. (Granted, I made that when the show wasn't *quite* as popular as it is now, but it was still kind of taking over fandom...) The only vid that I've gotten the kind of feedback that made me feel even close to satisfied was an SGA vid--but that fandom has proven itself to be super-fantastic with feedback across the board.

[gwyn-r.livejournal.com]

That's interesting -- was your vid done before the end of the first season, then? Because it seems like that's all anyone wants right now (or SGA, but I kind of mentally block that one out more!). I didn't realize SGA was more of a feedbacky fandom, but it makes sense, it being so all-encompassing for so many types of fans, and so ginormous. I was also being facetious, but that probably didn't come across -- it just seems like SPN is white-hot right now, and so there's a guaranteed cushion.

[ficbyzee.livejournal.com]

It was finished... hmm. Probably around episode 17 or 18? The fandom was still pretty huge at that point.

When I was writing fic in SGA, I was *astounded* at how good they were with feedbacking fic. I've really never experienced a fandom like that with the feedback, and it seemed to cross over a little into vidding, too--I still didn't get a *ton* of feedback on my vid, but I got way more than I have on other vids. SGA seems to be fairly unique, in terms of feedback; I've written in SPN and didn't get the same kind of response, even though the fandoms are similar in size now.

I'm honestly not sure there's a feedback cushion in *any* fandom: there seem to be a few vidders that can consistently get a lot of feedback, and then every once a while there will be a vid popping up out of nowhere that gets recced everywhere and gets lots of feedback, but for the most part? Vid feedback seems to suck for everyone, across the board. I think people are realizing how sucky that is (makesmewannadie and thefourthvine have been making some noise about it, recently), and trying to change it, so hopefully the situation will improve, but I'm not holding my breath.

[thefourthvine.livejournal.com]

SGA is probably like that in part because the early tone was heavily influenced by dS people. dS is the feedbackingest (behold my fearful neologism!) fandom on this earth, I swear. (Hmmm. I wonder if that extends to vids. I should ask some of the multi-fandom vidders who have done dS vids.)

[gwyn-r.livejournal.com]

I wonder if that's only true of the more recent DS revival? I'm kind of curious; I know Sandy and I never hear much of anything about our DS vid, but it's older, so it wouldn't be in people's path. Probably if SGA's level of feedbacking is something like DS's, it has a lot to do with its newness, I'd imagine. DS seems to be one of those rare fandoms that have experienced a wholesale new audience, which you just don't see much of in fandom.

[thefourthvine.livejournal.com]

dS is interesting because it's in its, like, fourth or fifth revival - people leave, but new people come in at about the same rate. I have no idea why, but it makes me very happy.

But until recently there's been a weird disconnect between dS fandom and dS vids. I had been in the fandom for a year or so before I even knew there were dS vids, and they weren't discussed much until very recently.

A year ago, people were surprised that vids existed for dS. It's really only in the last year or so that dS fans have been watching vids like people in other fandoms, and it's only during that space of time that there's been readily-accessible vid announcements and so on.

So I guess I'm wondering about vids made just in the last year or so; that's when I'd expect to see dS fans actually seeing new vids enough to see if they tended to give feedback more. (Of course, it's a small fandom; it's not huge like SGA or SPN, so it'd be a bad idea to compare to that. But, like, I wonder if new dS vids get about as much feedback as the average dS flashfic story.)

[destina.livejournal.com]

Of course, I suppose if I could ever care for a show like Supernatural, maybe that would change, since that seems to be all anyone wants to watch these days.

You know, I just don't think that's true. I recently made a fairly squeeful multi-fandom recs post, in which one of the vids was Blood/Lust, incidentally. I've also seen several recs posts recently that contained no SPN vids at all, and so my personal experience suggests to me that this isn't the case.

I think nearly all vidders feel like they vid into a vaccuum, to some extent, wrt vids posted online. I've rarely talked to one who hasn't expressed some version of this. Yes, if you are vidding the hot fandom of the moment, you may see more feedback or more immediate reaction. But judging by the public feedback I've seen to recently posted SPN vids, not necessarily. And I've also seen lovely comments on your vids, in the past; the comments you received on There spring to mind. So does the quantity really matter more than the quality of the responses?

Maybe I'm missing your point, or we're just not coming at this from the same direction and it's a classic YMMV thing.

(And all this vidding stuff aside -- I hope you are feeling better. :)

[gwyn-r.livejournal.com]

Oh, damn, I must have missed your non-SPN recs post in all this stupid craptastic sickness. I will go back and look for it (and bless you for making one).

I was being facetious, too, but I think that didn't come across very well -- I do really think that if I ever was in a white-hot fandom for a change, it would mean a much larger audience base and thus probably statistically more feedback, but since that's never been the case since back when I first started out, I honestly don't have any stats to compare with. I think the quantity thing for a lot of us was made worse by things like LJ (I've talked about this before, i think, but I can't remember which posts) -- you see how crazy people go for other vids, other fandoms, other vidders, and you find yourself looking at maybe six comments in a huge fandom for a vid you think is pretty good, then you see something similar from Vidder Z with over 100 comments and it's all over your friends list being recced by everyone, so you get this disproprotionate view of what it means.

Back in the olden days before online vid posting, you pretty much had to judge effects by sales or trades of your tape collection and the responses you got at cons, so i think that is why quantity has a larger -- too large -- impact than quality, maybe. It's a psychological thing, totally -- the silence seems more vast, there are only a few voices... I had a lot of trouble recently getting betas for vids, and it kind of combined with lower and lower feedback to make me feel like maybe quantity is some kind of more legit measure, though I'm sure that makes no sense.

I definitely do feel like I'm vidding into a vacuum. If I could, I'd go back to writing, but all I can seem to do these days is vid, but I'm fearing lately that I just am turning out too many vids or something, and thus diluting the interest.

[fenris_wolf0]

Well, I love your vids, both the classic Pros ones -thank you so much for spending the time to restore them and make them available again- and the LoM one which was just the intro I needed!

Then again I am not a vid specialist, so I am not sure what good my opinion is to anyone and positive feedback perception can be such a hit and miss, acrimonious affair that I rarely leave any nowadays. Sorry, but I've been burned too often and it's people like you, who deserve all the applause who get the silent treatment instead.

:(

[gwyn-r.livejournal.com]

I'm sorry to hear that other people's reactions have left you feeling like you shouldn't make comments -- but I know the feeling entirely too well. I was really heartened recently when I took a chance and emailed someone out of the blue and she took both the crit and the applause equally well, and it almost made me feel like maybe that kind of thing isn't hopelessly lost.

[anoel.livejournal.com]

I'm sorry you don't get more feedback, you as well as many other vidders should. I think part of the problem is people are just lazy and don't watch vids until awhile after they download it (both which happen to me unfortunatly). Sometimes having a password on your site can make it less likely too, however easy it is to get it (again with the people are lazy thing). As for different fandoms, no need to switch, you have to vid what you want to vid. And in reponse to a previous comment, please keep vidding! There can never be too many vids from you :)

On a feedback note, I just watched Blood/Lust again and LOVED it. I reeally love the effect you used as well as the parallels and oh so sexy clips.

[gwyn-r.livejournal.com]

I'm so glad you keep enjoying that vid! It's one of those rare ones that I can actually stand rewatching from time to time, you know?

(and on a totally tangential note, I think you're the first person I've ever seen with a Premiere icon -- most people I know who use it just call it all kinds of foul names!)

[anoel.livejournal.com]

Yes, its definitely fun to rewatch. And yes, Premiere many times deserves to be called a lot of foul names but it does allow me to create vids so I'm happy with it there.

[obsessive24.livejournal.com]

Oh goodness, I feel so guilty. I've been meaning to send you feedback on a bunch of vids since forever, but other stuff keep getting in the way, not to mention my MTV-generation attention span doesn't seem capable of sitting down and viewing an entire oeuvre of awesome vids without my brain imploding. Woe, and many, many apologies! Sometime this month, I swear.

*slinks away*

[obsessive24.livejournal.com]

*slinks back*

Feel free to kick my arse to next Sunday if it doesn't turn out to be the case.

[gwyn-r.livejournal.com]

No, no!! This was not designed to make anyone feel guilty. I was making fun of my "oh woe" personality, especially in light of the fact that OMG I ended up in the damn hospital hours later with more important things to worry about. I actually enjoyed my little experiment, because I like proving myself right. ;-) For so long I've seen people insist that URLs or email addys on vids made the diff between feedback and no feedback, and I had a bone to pick with that theory. I think that there's just never gonna be much fb for most vidders, and the only thing I've noticed is that for some reason, recs and links and bookmarks seem to actually increase fb levels -- and I can't help wondering if there's a psychological component to that, in the sense that we tend to react strongly to things other people react strongly to. It might help give other people a "license" to send fb if they know it was recced by someone they admire.

[merricatk.livejournal.com]

Some people are such wimps, letting minor little things like emergency surgery stand between them & their fannish pursuits. No sense of priorities.

(I wish I could watch your vids, but right now even getting my dial-up to work is a challenge.)

[gwyn-r.livejournal.com]

I know, I know... I should be taken out back and shot! I have failed in my fannish duties!

My supervisor told my co-workers that I had emailed them "from my deathbed" last week, and I was like, I'm not dead yet! Still living!

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, if you recover, it doesn't count as your deathbed no matter how bad you feel!

(Really glad you're feeling better, BTW.)

[blue-larkspur.livejournal.com]

Hi! I'm glad you're back from the hospital and seem to be recovering well. I've been thinking of you.

[gwyn-r.livejournal.com]

Thank you so much -- and I gotta say, I'm glad I'm recovering too! I've had way too much of being sick, enough to last a lifetime.

[just-eunice.livejournal.com]

I've been meaning to drop you a note to tell you how glad I am that you are okay and home. And before that a note to tell you how much I really enjoyed "Female of the Species" If I were not an absolute freak about commenting and emailing I would have done so before now.

*hugs you a lot and stuff*

[gwyn-r.livejournal.com]

I'm toddling off to DL your new vid now! I can't wait to see it and catch up on the stuff I missed while I was out of commission.

[cathexys.livejournal.com]

I have no idea how or why I missed the first time you announced this, but Im' so glad I caught it now!

That was truly a lovely vid, the lyrics and song perfect for the general tone you were going for. I loved the wat you picked so many lesser known clips with the familiar ones aliented through the white noise filter thingy...

What great scenes and MOTW and moments of our girls being dominant :-) (and extra kudos for the little graphic in the beginning :-)

Thanks so much for sharing!!!

And I wish I knew what to say about the feedback issue...maybe beyond the wild popularity, feedback in SPN is heavier simply b/c so many newbies are vidding and watching, thinking of it just like they think of fic rather than being intimidated ot of their minds??? Or maybe it's the delay effect (I often d'load a bunch of vids and don't watch them until later...)

glad to see you back and better!!!

[gwyn-r.livejournal.com]

Hey, I'm so glad you enjoyed it! I had a ball making it in a lot of ways, because I was always about the grrl power in those shows, even though Angel the series was not kind to the females, as Buffy was not kind to the poor, hapless males. And I'm especially squeeful about the animation love -- M'lyn did that for me even though she didn't have a sophisticated animation program, and I am just so happy with it. I felt like it really needed a cute intro.

[klia.livejournal.com]

I noticed this a while ago in elke_tanzer's memories:

vividcon 2004: 274 entries
vividcon 2005: 245 entries
vividcon 2006: 193 entries

I think that's pretty telling, personally.

[gwyn-r.livejournal.com]

Oh, very interesting. Hm. I know I ended up not getting the chance to do my premieres review, for various reasons. I wonder if everyone just got burned out, or it really is indicative of the feedback thing. Inquiring minds want to know!

[klia.livejournal.com]

Honestly? I think we're just so inundated with vids these days, it's a little overwhelming for everyone, and people aren't inclined to leave feedback anymore unless a vid strikes a very specific, very personal chord. That's my theory, anyway.

[klia.livejournal.com]

I've been madly torrenting stuff lately, so I hadn't dl'd and watched FotS until now, and I really enjoyed it! Perfect song for the universe. I haven't really watched either show since they ended, only an ep here or there on TNT, and it made me all nostalgic and sniffly, but made me smile, too. Thanks!