The WTF on WIPs

[gwyn]

So, I've never been tempted to write anything in WIP format. For one thing, I hate even reading that way; it wasn't till I found a really good X-Files writer (waves at Olivia!) who was working on an incredible M/Sk WIP that I changed my reading rules and started an unfinished one; recently in Buffy I put aside my fears to read onetwomany's luscious Offerings. Most others I've waited till they were complete, or else I read in progress and then ended up with an irrational hatred of the author because they never finished them, and probably never will.

So. All the more peculiar that I find myself wondering if this isn't the way to go on something new. Only I was talking about my dilemma with feochadn and movies_michelle the other night, and they both gave me the extreme "die, bitch, die" evil eye when I mentioned that I was already at nearly 4,000 words and wasn't even close to the end of the first chapter yet and didn't know what else to do but post in chunks. Now I'm at 5,000 and not close to the end of the first chapter. Sigh. And I mean, I get that evil eye, because I often hate the WIP idea -- far too often it's an excuse to milk praise, or it's abandoned by lazy, unfocused writers, or even energetic and focused writers become bored with the story or the fandom or the pairing, or what have you. Buffy's been an odd fandom for me in that I think the vast majority of stuff seems to be in WIP format, or else series, or snippets in LJ that you might have to string together. And they're by astonishingly good writers (this is a rich, rich fandom -- even if you think it's full of crap? You have no idea how many insanely good writers there are in this fandom, trust an ancient, picky-ass editor bitch like me), so I feel more compelled to read these.

It's made even worse by the fact that it's such a lame story -- yet another of the five million Spike as human stories, which... I also generally hate. I can rarely tolerate reading them; now I'm writing one. Sigh. I'm trying to take ginmar's advice that it will be different because it's mine, and to focus on the emotional stuff to get me over plot hurdles, but still... a type of story I don't like, in a format I don't generally support? I feel like a ho. My head is bowed in shame.

What's the general consensus on WIPs? Is it just very accepted in Buffy fandom, and I shouldn't worry about it? Do people just give up ahead of time because they've been burned by unfinished WIPs, and not read if they see the dreaded initials? Or is the whole thing just taken in stride? Would you rather wait for something to be finished, even if it's a looonggg wait, and do you think many others share the same opinion you do? What if the WIP doesn't go the way you want it to, or changes direction, or starts out bad and you give up, only it might get better later? I'm mostly curious about how people feel about these things, because I feel really weird about it, personally. I'm not even sure I know how to write this way. I suppose I could figure out how to do an LJ poll and ask people to tell me what they want me to do! Then I'd really be a ho! ;-)

Comments

[sweet-ali.livejournal.com]

I have a little notepad on the desktop of my computer that has a list of WIPs that i am following. There are about 100 stories there, some of which have not been updated in a *very* long time and possibly have no hope of ever being finished. But i keep them there, anyway. Why? Cause sometimes a WIP is just too addictive to simply discard.

So, obviously WIPs are very acceptable. I don't think that putting out a chapter instead of the whole story is just the writer looking for compliments. It whets the readers' appetites and makes us want more. It's an introduction.

Yes, i love that you put out an entire story instead of in a chapter by chapter basis. However, I'd happily accept a new fic from you in WIP form, as long as you swear on Spike's ass that you will finish it. *g*

And ooh, a Spike as human fic? (Guilty, guilty pleasure, especially when coupled with PreggoBuffy) Yes, you're right, it's been done over and over, but I must say, I've never seen you succumb to the masses in anything you've written, so i doubt your Spike-as-human fic will be anything to cringe at.

[gwyn-r.livejournal.com]

Aha! You have a secret pleasure in Spike as human stories! Now I know what to dangle in front of you for beta-ing... heee. I probably can safely swear on Spike's ass that it'd get finished -- I usually, once it's started and I've gone somewhere with it, finish. There's a lot of unfinished stuff in drawers, but it's not stuff I've pursued or talked to others about.

Re:

[sweet-ali.livejournal.com]

Now I know what to dangle in front of you for beta-ing... heee

Oh yeah, feel free to dangle :)

[umbo.livejournal.com]

Sometimes you just have to post a snippet and see how people react to it before you can keep going with the story. The whole reason I got my LJ was so I could do that with Marigold (http://www.home.earthlink.net/~shellmidwife/stories/marigold/marigold1.html). It took me months longer to *finish* it, but once I did I was pretty happy—and I'm not sure I ever would have finished it if I hadn't posted the snippets and gotten a good response.

I guess there's a difference between posting snippets and WiPs, though... I did post links on my LJ to Marigold as I was writing it, but since then I've limited my LJ posts to snippets from WiPs and not the entirety of what I've written so far. Of course, my stories these days tend to be around the 20,000 word mark, so posting the whole thing before finishing it would, I think, be really annoying. Which doesn't mean I don't inflict such things on certain friends when I'm feeling especially insecure or blocked ;-).

As far as it being a lame story, I have some serious doubts on that score. You're a good enough writer that I have no worries ;-)

And as far as reading WiPs... hmmm, I can't say that I've ever gone out of my way to read one. Of course, I seem to be incapable of writing a story without a sequel, but I think there's a difference between intentional WiPs and stories that turn into series.

I will say that I don't think it's unusual for a chapter to be 5000 words and nowhere near done. I think the main issues here are: a) do you have a chunk that holds together in some coherent way, and b) do you feel a strong need to post it, for feedback or reassurance, or whatever? If the answers to both of those are no, then I'm not sure why you're even thinking you need to post it. If they're both yes, I say go for it! As long as it's labeled clearly, people can choose to read it or not, no?

*hugs*

[umbo.livejournal.com]

Oh, and I meant to say also that I also don't go out of my way to avoid WiPs. If it's by an author I like, I'll read it. And I just thought of an example—Aukestrel's Strange Loops. That's a WiP I've read with great pleasure. If she never finishes it, I'll be sad, but I'm still happy I've read what she's posted.

And I like it when people post short things in their LJs, whether they're snippets or chapters or whatever.

[gwyn-r.livejournal.com]

Definitely I don't think it's B that causes me to think of the WIP method. I hope that if I write for feedback, someone will either kill me, or I have enough courage to hang up my keyboard. Because I've never wanted to be that kind of writer -- validation is good and necessary, but a lot of what I've seen in fandom over the years apalls me in the neediness dept. But I think that the way I write is more towards the A section -- I tend to write in what I envision as 'acts" -- because of my film background, maybe, I almost see things as movies in my head, and they have separate acts in them, edit points. So that the segmentation of a story is easier in some ways. One of my friends teased me in my Mag 7 novel that each part ended with a "dum-DUM" kind of thing, where on TV it would have been the dramatic break for commercial. I guess that's how I think of things.

Thanks for sharing your experience with Magnolia -- that helps. All this cool feedback helps a lot.

[circe-tigana.livejournal.com]

In general, I'm against WIPs, though I can never resist reading them. I think you've addressed a lot of the issues I have with them in your post -- as a writer, I am constantly revising the strands of my story to make them strong and cohesive throughout. You can't do that if you've posted the beginning already. Sometimes stories go off in different directions than you thought that would ... sometimes emotional arcs evolve in ways you least expect, or you realize they should ... WIPs limit this.

One of the things I love most about your writing is how your stories are so fulfilling, so COMPLETE. Not that I doubt your skill, but I worry that some of this might be sacrificed just to satisfy our voracious appetites.

All this being said, I'm currently LOVING rachelanton73 WIP Spillowgel, and [Unknown site tag]'s Half Gifts is the most beautiful thing ever. This latter is actually why I'm now tremendously excited that you are writing a "Spike as Human" story yourself, cause BOY am I a Gwyneth Rhys fan :)

So in conclusion, it's up to you. Be assured people will eagerly read your story whatever you choose to do. If you feel you have enough authorial control over the beast to release it into the wild in installments, do so. We'll be waiting, hungrily!

[gwyn-r.livejournal.com]

as a writer, I am constantly revising the strands of my story to make them strong and cohesive throughout. You can't do that if you've posted the beginning already. Sometimes stories go off in different directions than you thought that would ... sometimes emotional arcs evolve in ways you least expect, or you realize they should ... WIPs limit this.

You have a real knack for expressing ideas that I can't articulate -- this is it exactly. Thank you! That's one of the things I worry most about, because I mean, I never stop editing. Most of the stuff I've posted, I've wanted to fix years afterwards. I see stuff all the time that makes me cringe, and the editor me just wants to futz forever. I guess the thing to do would be to recognize that posting might make it more manageable, but that things could change once it's finished and if there's spots that need to be reworked.

My biggest problem is that I am the s-l-o-w-est writer on earth, I edit even slower and make at least three passes before handing it off to someone, and then continue to fuss over it. It was easier when no one knew me! No expectations, I could post something long in one piece and it was not a probem.

[circe-tigana.livejournal.com]

It was easier when no one knew me! No expectations, I could post something long in one piece and it was not a probem.

LOL! :) Oh, the prize of fame and adoration!

The thing you need to figure out is, Why are you considering posting a WIP? Reason number 1 would be the reason I suspect many of us would do this: we are all slaves to our feedback addiction. And there's nothing wrong with this, if this is in fact your reason. Reason number 2 might be to get critical feedback and advice about the direction of your story. Again, a valid reason. But if it's because of Reason Number 3: wanting to give your adoring and slavering public something to chew on, we can wait. Or post teasers in your LJ (that will help with Reason number 1, too!) Because in the end it doesn't matter if you're slow. We can wait for you to finish, we'll be waiting eagerly.

Take your time so you're happy. Just know in advance why you're considering a WIP before you decide one way or another. Don't be peer pressured :)

[gwyn-r.livejournal.com]

You know, I think I just actually figured this out, now, with this and with all the rest of this great feedback from people (so many different experiences!). I think a lot of this has to do with 1) I envision stories in my head as movies. So they have acts and segments with clear edit points, so I often write longer pieces that way, and either chapter or part endings are like the ending of an ep or an act -- so the segmentation part doesn't bother me so much. and 2) I feel this weird pressure because the show is ending to strike while the iron is hot. Not in a praise or me me me way, but because I am afraid that I won't have the feeling for it if I wait until I finish, that somehow the show ending will lessen my enthusiasm for writing it if I wait until it's a whole. I am insanely slow, and the last thing I wrote that was this large took me 8 months -- by then, my group of immediate 'friends" in the fandom were already twittering over other thngs, and I'd gotten sort of tired and felt really alone and isolated from the fandom. By the end of the novel I just wanted to cry, but I felt like I had to finish it, and then I couldn't even pay people to read the effing thing for a beta. So i think in the back of my mind what was driving this concern is that I'm afraid if i don't make public the early parts, I won't make it public at all once the energy and obsession that's driving my interest in Buffy cools a bit after the finale. I won't depart, 'cause I never leave a fandom, but I think I'm worried that if i don't strike while it's this burning passion, I won't feel motivated to do the whole story.

Wow... LJ is amazing therapy at times, eh? But I hope I never get into reason 1 or 2. I'd be all Sally Fieldy or something.

[circe-tigana.livejournal.com]

Wow... LJ is amazing therapy at times, eh? But I hope I never get into reason 1 or 2. I'd be all Sally Fieldy or something.

Ahh, but there's a little Soap Dish in us all, baby :)

Sounds like you have a plan. And Ginmar is right, you can always go back and change things.

WIPs

[darkwoods.livejournal.com]

I don't go out of my way to avoid WIPs either, but I do prefer a finished piece. If I know the author updates regularly, or if I trust that the author will update, I'll certainly stay with it... if I'm enjoying it. When I used to follow certain authors on fanfiction.net I would forget what the hell I was reading after a week or two and and get confused as hell. Now I stay with certain archives and LJs, and can keep stories fairly straight.

Human Spike, go for it! I've read a couple of good ones. MustangSally and Rivka's, Serious Moonlight, had human Spike in 1920s Egypt. That was a gas. It's really all about the author. I have complete confidence in you to do human Spike and then some.

[rusty_halo.livejournal.com]

Some readers avoid WIPs, but generally I don't think there's a stigma attached to them (in Buffy fandom). Also, FWIW, WIPs that last awhile tend to attract extremely devoted fans and to get lots of attention -- much more so when they're posted as WIPs than if they were to be posted all at once.

Personally, I like reading them, even if they're never finished (although often I really wish that they would be finished). It's sort of like a good TV series ... we become such passionate fans because it's a part of our lives, something to look forward to and speculate about ....

I think your concerns as a writer are justified and that you need to work them out for yourself, but from a reader's POV I have no problems with WIPS.

[gwyn-r.livejournal.com]

Yeah, definitely. And I think I figured something out while talking privately to ginmar -- that if I do the first chapter, don't like it, I can stop posting, finish it, edit it, and then put it up, and fix the first part, and it'll be a whole. No harm, no foul. I don't know why i didn't think of that in the first place, then I wouldn't have had to whine. It seemed like an all or nothing proposition before. ;-) Sometimes I am just very dim.

[gem225.livejournal.com]

Olivia's Mulder/Skinner WIP (http://www.angelfire.com/home/pandoemonium/olivia/ALD.html) is incredible and one of the few WIPs I read, since a dear friend recommended it to me. The other WIPs I read also are on recommendation of dear and trusted friends. I tend to avoid WIPs because I've seen too many never finished, but if it seems best to you to post and keep writing, post and keep writing. :-)

[ginmar.livejournal.com]

Hah! If you don't write this, I'll be pissed, now, because I want to see it. I don't like a lot of writers. Period. And I'll tell them, that, too. But I like your stuff. A little too much, actually. So stop angsting about it, and write it, because I want to read it, dammit.

Sometimes you just have to write. Writing is the weirdest thing you can do. I absolutely have to write, but then it's strange to realize people will read my stories, voluntarily. I think every writer goes through this. If you're insecure, it's good. However, do not get too insecure, or I will be forced to take action.

Ultimately, writing is about you and your characters. And I don't think it's a bad idea to let emotion be the plot, because it intensifies the reader's emotions, too. Every good writer has an understanding with their characters, just a bit. Using emtion means the reader can, too.

[callherblondie.livejournal.com]

I'm currently writing my first BtVS fic and posting snippets on my LJ in WIP form (and what are the odds? It's post season 7 Human!Spike and Buffy in Italy). I've discovered that I like it that way. It seems much more of an organic process, a bit here a bit there and then stir in some hope that it will come out cohesively. I personally would find it difficult just sit down and write a complete story w/out any sort of feedback. I've tried and gotten very frustrated w/it and then it grows into this massive thing that feels like a chore and I eventually abandon it. With writing a little bit here and a little bit there, it doesn't seem like such a daunting task and I can write scenes when they come to me. With that being said, I do try to write the snippets/scenes in the sequential order that they are supposed to occur. As a reader, I get very confused sometimes when I read fic snippets on other people's LJs and the scenes are not in order. But I enjoy reading WIPs b/c its like a nice little prezzie when a new chpt or snippet is posted. The only thing that sucks is when a story you've been following for a while is not being updated anymore.

[killabeez.livejournal.com]

I have no objection to people posting WIPs if they so desire. I don't mind reading them. I'm sad if they get abandoned, but I can deal. But if someone asked me, and really wanted an honest answer, "Should I start posting a work in progress?" I would say to that person, "From the bottom of my heart I say to you, just say no!"

You seem a little bit more confident about your writing than I am, so maybe it wouldn't be so awful an experience for you as it has been for me. Maybe you wouldn't learn to hate your WIP long before it was finished, or wish that you had done things differently, or perhaps told an entirely different story with your scenario. Perhaps it wouldn't loom over you like a big guilt-colored thunderstorm every time you even thought about writing. But on the off chance any of these things did happen to you, let me tell you, it is no fun. Consider carefully.

[gwyn-r.livejournal.com]

Confident? hah ha, surely you jest! I think it's more comfort, because I've been doing it for so damn long, have run the gamut from being paid for it to being rejected everywhere, so writing is like a second nature to me. But confident, never. ;-)

I'm really glad to hear this, though -- assume the WIP in question is Desert Prince? It's that guilt-colored thunderstorm thing that worries me, but I also worry that if I wait until it's totally finished, I'll never do it because Buffy will be over and so will my obsession. By the time I'd finished Lucifer Match, I was sick of it -- not the writing, but that everyone had moved on who I'd been excited with about M7, and that i couldn't pay my betas to look at it, and that it took so effing long to write. I've been contemplating the WIP thing as an antidote to the depressing reality of the length of writing something like LM again, and losing that feeling of impetus and sheer love for the fandom.

[killabeez.livejournal.com]

Confident? hah ha, surely you jest!

Heh. I knew you were going to say that. *g* It's such a relative term, though -- I think a trouser button would be more confident about its writing ability than I am.

assume the WIP in question is Desert Prince?

*g* No, I don't have much DP guilt. Partly that I share the blame, maybe, and partly that I don't think anyone really minds if it never gets finished. It's this other story I started, oh... three years ago. Pain. I had the same idea you did when I started -- that it might be an easier way for me to face writing a big story, which I very much wanted to do. I turned out to be as wrong as you can get, but maybe you won't have that experience. Just thought, as a friend, I'd advise caution. :-)

[rashaka.livejournal.com]

I can read a WIP. I usually prefer some assurance that it will be finished, but if it's really awesome or by awesome writer's, I'll eat up even the unfinsihed plot-bunnies with abandon. I'd read WIP of yours.

But I do like completed fic just because then I know I can be assured of regular updates.

I used to be wary of Spike-human fics, as most do suck. And then I read Half Gifts by automatedalice, and I realized not only can it be done well, it can be freaking amazing.

So don't be discouraged from trying it. I love your fic-- I'm sure it'll be an interesting read. i believe in you,

[rashaka.livejournal.com]

oops, wrong link. It's automatedalice_.