It's a fine line between clever and stupid

[gwyn]

So, say I have a friend who writes fanfic. And say my friend once wrote a line she liked in a story, and had thought briefly of using that line for her title, but abandoned it in favor of a clearer, more concise title. And say now my friend doesn't like the title of a new story, and wants to use that line from an old story as title for the new one. Would you laugh up your sleeve at my friend? Think she was a pretentious ass? Snicker about her in chat, remarking how pathetically in love with herself she is? Dismiss her?

My friend is a little flinchy -- just about every time she turns around people discuss things on lists like finding the use of epigrams from philosophers or intellectuals or great poets as pathetic and sad (and she's just, of course, written a story where she used a quote from Einstein as an epigram), or people mocking fic writers who tend towards the metaphorical, or what have you. They always say to my friend, "We don't mean you, we mean bad writers who do that," but my friend is dubious. She can see herself and her own stylistic quirks in a lot of rants and mockery, and is easily embarassed by anything even resembling acting like an arrogant fool.

Should my friend give it up?

Comments

[aerye.livejournal.com]

Should my friend give it up?

Absolutely not.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_nepthys_/]

I think your friend should give her story the title she likes and not worry too much about what other people will think. :-)

[gwyn-r.livejournal.com]

You're right, of course, but I... no, wait! My friend! is used to her own "friends" mocking her, calling her names behind her back, and other fun things she finds out about by accident, so she's highly wiggable about doing anything that looks like she believes she's Miss Thang. Very insecure that way, poor thing. ;-)

[minotaurs.livejournal.com]

There's absolutely nothing wrong with using epigrams, so long as they are actually applicable, and not just somebody showing off that they have a copy of Barlett's. As for the title, it's her story, she should give it the title that means something to her.

So there. Phblat.

Hypothetically Speaking?

[morgandawn.livejournal.com]

I think your friend should give up. On the people who snicker and mock and suffer from a terminal disease called "Lack of Humanitycus." It is a terrible condition that shrinks the soul so small that it falls out of their pockets and rolls around the hardwood floor for the cats to play with until they get bored and stalk off to beg for food.

But since this is only a hypothetical, your friend is free to do what she likes. Because what is a little pretentiousness amongst friends?

Re: Hypothetically Speaking?

[batdina.livejournal.com]

lack of humanitycus? I know people afflicted with that. lots of them. sad, innit?

Re: Hypothetically Speaking?

[morgandawn.livejournal.com]

LOL. well its not incurable, just terminal if you don't cure it? Of course, even the cured people die eventually.

There is something called stretching an analogy too far.

Re: Hypothetically Speaking?

[gwyn-r.livejournal.com]

Yeah but my friend? Total coward. ;-) Never asks, "Do I look fat in this?" Instead she asks, "Do I look pretentious?"

Re: Hypothetically Speaking?

[morgandawn.livejournal.com]

LOL. What a world. Better to be fat than to be pretentious?

Whatever happened to you could never be too pretentious or too skinny?

[harmonyfb.livejournal.com]

And say now my friend doesn't like the title of a new story, and wants to use that line from an old story as title for the new one. Would you laugh up your sleeve at my friend? Think she was a pretentious ass? Snicker about her in chat, remarking how pathetically in love with herself she is? Dismiss her?

Depends. What's the line? ;)

or people mocking fic writers who tend towards the metaphorical, or what have you. They always say to my friend, "We don't mean you, we mean bad writers who do that," but my friend is dubious

Hey, I've seen stuff I've done mentioned in badfic rants (like having Willow squeak, for example, or the use of 'oh' in the middle of a sentence). Happens to everybody, and I figure it keeps me peering closely at my work to make it better, which is a good thing.

Bottom line is, when a good writer does it, it sells. When a bad writer does it, it tanks.

My advice to your friend? Write to please yourself, first.

Then ask someone you trust to tell you whether or not your work sucks. Someone who will tell you, if it does. I've had my dialog beta hand a scene back, saying, "This sucks. You can write better than this. Do it over." And she was right. And it was better for the rewrite.

[gwyn-r.livejournal.com]

I think I... she! She! isn't as worried about the writing quality (although of course the new story could be shit) as about thinking her writing is such hot stuff that of course pulling lines from her own stuff to use as a title is merited. I-- my friend! has got used to being pounded on about enough other things that slinging her own writing around makes her nervous, afraid that she's going to be held up to ridicule like she has so many time before with her peer group.

And yes, I know, I -- she! needs better friends. ;-)

[harmonyfb.livejournal.com]

I think I... she! She! isn't as worried about the writing quality (although of course the new story could be shit) as about thinking her writing is such hot stuff that of course pulling lines from her own stuff to use as a title is merited. I-- my friend! has got used to being pounded on about enough other things that slinging her own writing around makes her nervous, afraid that she's going to be held up to ridicule like she has so many time before with her peer group.

So what's the line? I'll tell you, I mean, her if it's too precious. :)

But honestly? Nothing wrong with using lines out of your own work for titles. I've got several lines I'm really, really proud of. I wouldn't hesitate to use them, if they'd translate for titles. Which they won't.

And yes, I know, I -- she! needs better friends.

Eh, just mock them back. ;)

Deep Thoughte By Morgan Dawn

[morgandawn.livejournal.com]

Me, my friend and I went walking down the street,
hopping from line to line, skipping with each beat,
when we turned the corner and imagine to our surprise,
we saw you and yourself walking in disguise.

[umbo.livejournal.com]

I *like* stories with epigrams. Of course, I write stories with frames based on Buddhist philosophy, so what do you expect? ;-)

I would be totally not laughing at a friend who used a line from another story as the title for a new story.

Please don't--er, don't let your *friend*--give it up.

*hugs*

[gem225.livejournal.com]

For your friend:
It's easy to say but hard to do: trust yourself. Use the line for the title, and keep writing.

For you:
I very much enjoy reading your LJ. You're smart and insightful and funny and honest. I keep meaning to say that. :-)

Gail

What Gail said.

[catmilla.livejournal.com]

Complete stranger here.

-> Your friend should stick to her instinctual guns :)
-> You/your journal is a treat.

[darkwoods.livejournal.com]

Please yourself Pet. You're a wonderful writer with a unique voice.

[leela-cat.livejournal.com]

The people you could laugh at would be those who don't recognise the title as a line from another story. I don't think there's anything prententious about using your own line for a title. After all, every title we use is, in effect, our own line. Unless we've "borrowed" it from someone else.

Fie on those "friends" of your "friend".

Your friend should definitely *not* give it up.

[gwyn-r.livejournal.com]

That's true! Most likely, they won't know it's from another story. I still remember one of my betas in XF fandom, not getting that the ending line in a story was based on an earlier revelation of Mulder's. So like, if they can't remember an important revelation in the same story, how would they remember it from another story almost a year ago? Problem solved. heeee

[leela-cat.livejournal.com]

So glad that I could help.

Maybe your friend should congratulate people who figure it out. Take the wind out of them.

Enjoy!

[lordshiva.livejournal.com]

I remember when someone on TWoP said the title Daemons Luminati was pretentious. And I got all freaked out and defensive - even though I chose the title because it suggested to me the Mutant Enemy mixture of arcane and self-aware facetiousness. And it sounded really cool, meant something in two different languages, implied creepiness and awe - you know, a bunch of stuff that seemed right to me. How many people would even know that Daemons and Luminati are Greek and Latin? But to one person it was "pretentious" (Like the writers never used Greek and Latin together!) Ha! But I focused on that one person. Why give one person more power to affect us than all those that appreciate and enjoy what we do?

Why the hell do we do that?

I say Stop It!

Who gives a fuck, Gywn? Far more people are very pleased to be getting to read the quality work of your friend for free! We've all paid cash money for published work not even close to as good as the stuff you write for the love of a show and its characters.

Einstein? Cool.

[gwyn-r.livejournal.com]

I remember when someone on TWoP said the title Daemons Luminati was pretentious.

Oh geez! ::rolls eyes:: Good old TWoP. One of the things i love most about that story, which is probably my favorite in Buffy fandom, is the title. It's wonderful, and I loved the juxtaposition of root languages, and it was a perfect picture of just what the story would be about.

Now I want to go reread it. ;-)

Why give one person more power to affect us than all those that appreciate and enjoy what we do?
Why the hell do we do that?

I wish I knew... I do it way too often, I think because fandom has such an insular nature where we hear more reactions to our work than we would if we were simply selling a story and getting a few bucks for it. And I've heard a lot of comments lately about people I really like, people here on my friends list even, being mocked and insulted over their fic or their styles because a person has a personal issue -- and they take the personal out on the fic. Which is, of course, no reason to let anyone have that kind of effect on me, you're absolutely right. Uh, my friend! Effect on my friend!

[gwyn-r.livejournal.com]

Oh, and I meant to say, this was the Einstein quote:
The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and science.

I just loved that, and it was a perfect epigram for that story. Right after that I had to listen to a whole list of pals complaining about using intellectual epigrams (crap writers who weren't intelligent enough topull it off, and I was like, hey! shuddup!).