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gwynI’m having a really bad week, with the high point today of opening the freezer to get ice cubes for my iced tea, which I was going to take with me on my way to an early showing of Cold Mountain, and finding my fridge broken down. I love the brutal irony of all the ads in the Yellow Pages that say “same day service!” for everything, which I came to find out when my furnace broke down a couple months ago is a lie. I finally found one place where the guy felt sorry for me because of the impending holiday, and came over. Everyone had told me it would be a compressor, so would cost more than a new fridge. Which, you know, okay, except that anyone I asked about delivery of a new one before the holiday laughed at me. Thankfully he found a relay switch and fixed it for now, but that’s my new goal -- forget about vidding equipment, I have to do major appliances. Sigh. The money pit just never ends.
So I have trouble focusing, and haven’t had energy enough to do a usage post with the holidays and all, but I realize I’m overdue. You’re hanging on my every word, aren’t you? Shyeah. Right. Anyways, I decided I should pick something easy. Or at least, easy for me; clearly, quotations marks seem difficult to impossible for others. Think about all the times you've seen signs where people randomly use quote marks to emphasize weird words -- signs like Try "our" hot dogs! or You'll "love" our new "pot roast" or whatever. Drives ya nuts, doesn't it? Yet it's prevalent in fiction, and in all kinds of day to day writing.
Quotation marks are used to enclose a direct quotation (dialog counts as a quotation), or to set off titles of some kinds of publications. In American English, we use a double quotation mark; in British English, a single quotation mark is used. It’s really that simple, yet I see something done all the time that baffles me completely about where it came from, and why relatively intelligent, language-centric people do it: using a single quotation mark (or double, if you’re British and doing this, though I rarely see Brits make this error) to indicate interior thoughts, or to draw attention to slang or other phrases that someone wants you to know they wouldn’t normally say themselves. Here’s what I’m talking about:
would be wrong in AE. It’s weird. And yet, most fanfic writers, and frequently many people in my daily work, do this. There’s no direct quotation there, so there’s no need for a quotation mark (it should read simply: I wonder if my new wand will help my spells turn out better, Ron wondered...). If a person really feels like they need to set it off somehow, that the reader is too stupid to understand that wondering is in fact a personal interior monologue, then italics, or another form of emphasis such as underlining or asterisking, can be used (though it’s pretty unnecessary). It’s just that in the way we write, especially dialog or interior conversations, words on paper don’t require anything extraneous to show that it’s something being thought -- precisely because words such as thought, wondered, pondered, considered, etc. will tell you that this dialog is in Ron’s head.
Confused writers also use this single-quote format when they want to use a cliché, or some sort of phrase they want to call attention to as slang, or anything else they wouldn’t necessarily say on their own. An example would be:
Say it with me: that would be wrong. Just because it’s a common phrase, a line from a movie or show, a name, a cliché, etc., does not mean it requires quotation marks of any kind, and certainly not single ones if you’re a Yank. I think that a lot of people must do this because they lack confidence in what they’re saying, not even so much because they believe that common words or phrases deserve setting off as quotations. Almost as if they don’t trust their own ability to convey information without that added emphasis quotation marks provide. But if you really do feel that the quotes are necessary in your writing, at least use them right -- use double quotes if you’re American, single if you’re British. Whatever weird reason people have for thinking singles make a word or phrase or thought less significant than a real quotation, it’s a wrong reason, and your knowledgeable editors will grind far less molar real estate if you use ‘em right.
The easiest rule of quotation marks? Don’t use them at all if you’re using the quotations indirectly -- that means you’re kind of introducing what was said without directly quoting it. So you’d have: Nikita told Michael that she had never killed anyone until Section One made her an assassin. No quotes around “she had never...” and most certainly not single marks if you’re a Yank!
Another thing about quotation marks that confuses people is how to punctuate them -- do the periods go inside, outside, what about semicolons or exclamation points, yadda yadda. In BE, mostly they go outside the quoted material, even if it’s dialog you’re writing. But in AE, it’s a bit more complicated, and made even more irritating by the variety of style guides with differing recommendations. However, you’re generally safe if you’re just writing fic by following the basic guidelines taught in most grammar books: Periods and commas always inside the marks (1), colons and semicolons outside the marks (2), and quotation marks and exclamation points inside the marks unless they apply to the sentence as a whole (3).
In number 3, that first one shows that the exclamation point applies to the specific words Dawn’s being quoted as screeching; in the second, it’s applying to Buffy’s thoughts of being driven insane, so it’s being used to kind of excite up the whole sentence. It would be the same if you were using a question mark in that manner, as well
I think that the use of quotation marks in dialog is pretty much a basic, but the problem many new writers have of knowing how to break dialog up (not running two lines of dialog together when they come from separate people ) is probably something I’d have to go into more detail on in the future. It seems to cause a fair amount of trouble in fandom, so might be worth addressing. Because that’s basically it for the old quote marks -- use them in doubles if you’re an American, always, even if it’s for internal thoughts, slang or clichés, or anything not a direct quotation/dialog; use them sparingly in prose (that’s what air quotes are for, man! we don’t need them on the page!); and keep your punctuation relative to the quotation and its use in the sentence. Bingo, you’re done.
ETA: Okay, you're not done! Shell reminded me I hadn't addressed the dreaded quotation within a quotation. Fortunately, it's really easy -- no, really! All you do is do the opposite of what you just did for the larger quotation -- if you're using AE, you'd enclose your extra quotation inside single marks, if you're writing in BE, you'd use double quotes for your quote within a quote. As such:
"I have no doubt," Michael Wiseman said, "that when Theo Morris tells me 'If you run, I will kill you both,' that's exactly what he'll do."
Flip those for BE, and you have your answer. I know people freak when they see a single quote butting up against a double, or get all ga-ga about a sentence ending like this: ...word.'" But seriously, it's not worth freaking about. It's not that uncommon, your readers will usually be able to follow along, and everything's copacetic.
And if you have someone who's really long-winded or has a really long speech you're trying to break up into separate paragraphs as they yammer on ceaselessly, but you don't want to break the flow, you end your paragraph with no closing quotation marks, but you begin your next paragraph, where the person is still yammering, with an opening quotation mark again. It's some weird thing they invented to make it easier for the reader to keep track of the fact that the same person is still droning on. I've used this device in a number of my stories, so if you want, I can point you in a direction of how it's used.
Now I’m off to check the fridge and see if got cold again in there, or I’ll be heading for botulism street.
So I have trouble focusing, and haven’t had energy enough to do a usage post with the holidays and all, but I realize I’m overdue. You’re hanging on my every word, aren’t you? Shyeah. Right. Anyways, I decided I should pick something easy. Or at least, easy for me; clearly, quotations marks seem difficult to impossible for others. Think about all the times you've seen signs where people randomly use quote marks to emphasize weird words -- signs like Try "our" hot dogs! or You'll "love" our new "pot roast" or whatever. Drives ya nuts, doesn't it? Yet it's prevalent in fiction, and in all kinds of day to day writing.
Quotation marks are used to enclose a direct quotation (dialog counts as a quotation), or to set off titles of some kinds of publications. In American English, we use a double quotation mark; in British English, a single quotation mark is used. It’s really that simple, yet I see something done all the time that baffles me completely about where it came from, and why relatively intelligent, language-centric people do it: using a single quotation mark (or double, if you’re British and doing this, though I rarely see Brits make this error) to indicate interior thoughts, or to draw attention to slang or other phrases that someone wants you to know they wouldn’t normally say themselves. Here’s what I’m talking about:
‘I wonder if my new wand will help my spells turn out better,’ Ron wondered as he returned to Hogwarts
would be wrong in AE. It’s weird. And yet, most fanfic writers, and frequently many people in my daily work, do this. There’s no direct quotation there, so there’s no need for a quotation mark (it should read simply: I wonder if my new wand will help my spells turn out better, Ron wondered...). If a person really feels like they need to set it off somehow, that the reader is too stupid to understand that wondering is in fact a personal interior monologue, then italics, or another form of emphasis such as underlining or asterisking, can be used (though it’s pretty unnecessary). It’s just that in the way we write, especially dialog or interior conversations, words on paper don’t require anything extraneous to show that it’s something being thought -- precisely because words such as thought, wondered, pondered, considered, etc. will tell you that this dialog is in Ron’s head.
Confused writers also use this single-quote format when they want to use a cliché, or some sort of phrase they want to call attention to as slang, or anything else they wouldn’t necessarily say on their own. An example would be:
It was fun watching Spike ‘get medieval on his ass.’
Say it with me: that would be wrong. Just because it’s a common phrase, a line from a movie or show, a name, a cliché, etc., does not mean it requires quotation marks of any kind, and certainly not single ones if you’re a Yank. I think that a lot of people must do this because they lack confidence in what they’re saying, not even so much because they believe that common words or phrases deserve setting off as quotations. Almost as if they don’t trust their own ability to convey information without that added emphasis quotation marks provide. But if you really do feel that the quotes are necessary in your writing, at least use them right -- use double quotes if you’re American, single if you’re British. Whatever weird reason people have for thinking singles make a word or phrase or thought less significant than a real quotation, it’s a wrong reason, and your knowledgeable editors will grind far less molar real estate if you use ‘em right.
The easiest rule of quotation marks? Don’t use them at all if you’re using the quotations indirectly -- that means you’re kind of introducing what was said without directly quoting it. So you’d have: Nikita told Michael that she had never killed anyone until Section One made her an assassin. No quotes around “she had never...” and most certainly not single marks if you’re a Yank!
Another thing about quotation marks that confuses people is how to punctuate them -- do the periods go inside, outside, what about semicolons or exclamation points, yadda yadda. In BE, mostly they go outside the quoted material, even if it’s dialog you’re writing. But in AE, it’s a bit more complicated, and made even more irritating by the variety of style guides with differing recommendations. However, you’re generally safe if you’re just writing fic by following the basic guidelines taught in most grammar books: Periods and commas always inside the marks (1), colons and semicolons outside the marks (2), and quotation marks and exclamation points inside the marks unless they apply to the sentence as a whole (3).
1.“I would never have believed,” Harry told Professor Snape, “that you would become my benefactor.”
2. Chris wrote, “I will always be your man”; however, he knew that Vin was still learning his letters, and wouldn’t read what he’d written for a long time.
3. Any argument with Dawn is marked by a screeching “get out, get out, get OUT!”
Buffy thought, it makes me insane when Dawn screams at me “get out”!
In number 3, that first one shows that the exclamation point applies to the specific words Dawn’s being quoted as screeching; in the second, it’s applying to Buffy’s thoughts of being driven insane, so it’s being used to kind of excite up the whole sentence. It would be the same if you were using a question mark in that manner, as well
I think that the use of quotation marks in dialog is pretty much a basic, but the problem many new writers have of knowing how to break dialog up (not running two lines of dialog together when they come from separate people ) is probably something I’d have to go into more detail on in the future. It seems to cause a fair amount of trouble in fandom, so might be worth addressing. Because that’s basically it for the old quote marks -- use them in doubles if you’re an American, always, even if it’s for internal thoughts, slang or clichés, or anything not a direct quotation/dialog; use them sparingly in prose (that’s what air quotes are for, man! we don’t need them on the page!); and keep your punctuation relative to the quotation and its use in the sentence. Bingo, you’re done.
ETA: Okay, you're not done! Shell reminded me I hadn't addressed the dreaded quotation within a quotation. Fortunately, it's really easy -- no, really! All you do is do the opposite of what you just did for the larger quotation -- if you're using AE, you'd enclose your extra quotation inside single marks, if you're writing in BE, you'd use double quotes for your quote within a quote. As such:
"I have no doubt," Michael Wiseman said, "that when Theo Morris tells me 'If you run, I will kill you both,' that's exactly what he'll do."
Flip those for BE, and you have your answer. I know people freak when they see a single quote butting up against a double, or get all ga-ga about a sentence ending like this: ...word.'" But seriously, it's not worth freaking about. It's not that uncommon, your readers will usually be able to follow along, and everything's copacetic.
And if you have someone who's really long-winded or has a really long speech you're trying to break up into separate paragraphs as they yammer on ceaselessly, but you don't want to break the flow, you end your paragraph with no closing quotation marks, but you begin your next paragraph, where the person is still yammering, with an opening quotation mark again. It's some weird thing they invented to make it easier for the reader to keep track of the fact that the same person is still droning on. I've used this device in a number of my stories, so if you want, I can point you in a direction of how it's used.
Now I’m off to check the fridge and see if got cold again in there, or I’ll be heading for botulism street.
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no subject
Date: 2003-12-30 05:00 pm (UTC)2) I'd never heard that semi-colon rule before.
3) You left out the quotes within quotes thing, which I see people mangling all the time, and also the what to do when the quotation goes on for longer than one paragraph. But maybe you were saving those? ;-)
no subject
Date: 2003-12-30 08:24 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2003-12-30 06:09 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2003-12-30 08:38 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2003-12-30 08:12 pm (UTC)Also, if we as AE writers use single quotes, do the outside punctuation rules apply? And if BE writers use double quotes, do they punctuate American? (Reason I'm asking is that our bib person on virgule is Canadian, used MLA, and did the American punctuation with quotation marks. Was she just humoring us south of the border???)
Good Luck on the fridge!!!
no subject
Date: 2003-12-30 08:33 pm (UTC)You know, that second question is a doozy! I honestly don't know -- when I do stuff for our foreign offices that use BE, I've never actually come across the same situation, so I'm not sure how we'd handle it -- there certainly isn't anything in my style guides here to tell me. But it sounds like she was doing the AE thing, possibly to make it smoothest for all audiences -- when I get back to work after the new year, I'll have to see if the new Chicago gives any info on this! I've found that BE audiences don't seem to get too uptight when AE punctuation is used across the board, especially with quote marks. Bless their hearts.
no subject
Date: 2003-12-31 08:00 am (UTC)as for the second..that's what i figured. I'll just have to ask her. Maybe the Canadians get used to using MLA and Chicago for US publications???
and yes, bless their hearts :-)
no subject
Date: 2003-12-31 02:10 am (UTC)British quotations
Date: 2004-01-01 02:49 pm (UTC)SallyK
Re: British quotations
Date: 2004-01-01 07:08 pm (UTC)That's really interesting about what you were saying re: Brit publications using double quotes. I wonder if they were changing them because their audience included Americans, or if they were possibly edited on this side of the pond to use American styles? It would be interesting to find out!
It could also be that standards are changing for some publishers, especially if they're sending them to wider audiences. I've noticed that some of the traditional styles used in foreign languages (such as the << >> in French for quotations, and that double S character in German) are being altered for international reading. You've made me curious now!
Re: British quotations
Date: 2004-01-02 05:16 pm (UTC)Perhaps the single quotes are the house style of some particular British publisher but I know I was taught to use double quotes in school in the UK. (and so was my father who was both a civil servant and a linguist, and is therefore very fussy about his punctuation)
I know that some German punctuation has changed under the influence of English usage, the salutation at the beginning of a letter used to be, Liebe Gwyn! but these days they tend to use a comma in the same way we do. I think PC keyboards have probably hastened the dropping of unusual characters and when it is as easy as typing a double s instead of a special character, it probably doesn't take that much.
SallyK
no subject
Date: 2004-01-01 05:51 pm (UTC)"Thanks for taking care of Dawn," Buffy smiled.
Did Buffy somehow learn how to smile dialog? Some kind of new lip-reading thing?
I know this is only peripheral to your subject. But it's in the ball park. And I know I have sneaked in another little rant about my current pet peeve which is abuse of dialog attributions.
I only see this kind of error in dialog within quotes. It reveals a very deep misunderstanding of how dialog punctuation works.
Diane (Featherstone)
no subject
Date: 2004-01-01 07:10 pm (UTC)If I can find a polite way to address this confusion, I might try to tackle it at some point. it's a really tough one though, because a lot of people don't actually see it when they do it.