I love to listen to the sad, sad songs

[gwyn]

I want to write a death story in the Fast and the Furious fandom. This doesn't seem like a dramatic statement to make, really -- it's not that different than saying "I want to write a PWP" or "I want to write a novel-length WIP." But apparently it is; you mention a death story idea to people and they start groaning or sighing heavily, with sad-face emoticons or waving of hands in a physical show of denial. It's the ultimate form of the sad story, so it usually merits a few extra notches of anguish from other fans, but really, any sad story will generally garner a reaction of disappointment from most of the people in your fandom. Your friends are hurt, they're disappointed, and you know they won't read your story; worst of all, you may have trouble rounding up a beta/editor when your request is met with a spontaneous burst of tears.

I used to think that fans might be more open to the sad and the tragic than the mundane world -- most people I know outside of fandom won't go to a movie that doesn't have a generic, prefabricated storyline and guaranteed happy ending, so they're pretty much limited to stupid action movies and cut-and-paste romantic "comedies". They won't even watch classics like Casablanca or Gone With the Wind, because, you know, unhappy ending... And when I first got into media fandom in The Professionals, so many of the truly great stories were at best unhappy stories; in my opinion, the best things I read in the fandom were almost always death stories. Not that there were many of them, but anyone who read the classic circuit story Endgame knows what I'm talking about. When I wrote my own Pros death story, for a zine that my local fan group the Media Cannibals were putting out together, I couldn't find many takers for the required "at least two people have to edit your story" requirement we placed on ourselves (because we are all writing bitches from hell). I thought it was the best thing I wrote in the fandom, but most people wouldn't touch it with a ten-foot pole, which was a surprise to me because I'd genuinely believed that people were more open to main character death stories than that. My first experience writing in Pros fandom was a novel that involved the death of one partner's wife, and since it wasn't one of the main characters, that kind of death was okay -- but that okayness led me to have a skewed understanding of how open people are to death stories. (Not that I didn't hear how much it made people cry, or subsequently how my stories are always "bittersweet" at best, which sits well with me because I love the bittersweet, oh yeah.)

That was the lesson, though -- anyone else, hell, even Cowley (or replace the secondary or tertiary characters of choice in your fandom) death is okay, but not for one of the main pairing folks. Naive as it sounds, this was an eye-opener to me. I'd seen people who could be lured by the promise of a good story into reading things they hated: non-con, BDSM, comedy, shopping for curtains... you name it, you could almost always squeeze a read out of most fans if the reward was pitched to them as great enough. But not death -- never death. I found this peculiar because I truly love sad stories.

Not every great sad story is a death story, either. But if the premise deals significantly with grief, loss, illness, or something similar, it often gets lumped into that big category of Sad Story along with death, and then people tend to avoid it. Folks scrutinize titles or rec lists with the zeal of a newly converted vegan, looking for the dangerous ingredient that will give away its true Sad nature and thus be crossed off the list. Escapism is the word of the day for most people reading any lit, but especially for fanfic.

And that's where I get stymied, because I find it totally escapist to be pulled into a well-written story and shown another world, regardless of whether it's sad or happy. But I've rarely met anyone in my life who finds escape in writing (even if it's superior) that captures a different world than my own and sucks me into that world, when that world is full of tragedy. I'm hard-pressed to pick a favorite novel, but among the top three choices would have to be Michael Ondaatje's The English Patient, which a friend dismissed once as "a story about a guy burned to a crisp" and therefore impossible to consider as escapism -- despite the incredibly powerful love stories at its core, the intrigue of WWII, and the African desert exploration. It has sad stuff, ergo, it's not escapism. Yet every time I reread it, I'm so lost in his gorgeous, precise prose, the incredible characters he presents, the richness of this sealed-in-time world, that I find it terrifically escapist.

As fans, I think, we invest a lot of feeling in our characters (they are, after all, nearly real to us), and so tragedy becomes something to avoid because it's just too much feeling of a sort that is painful or hopeless. And I realize few people find it spiritually satisfying to feel pain for characters they love -- there's definitely a subset of folks like me who do find tragedy to be a rich and powerful reading experience, but I know we're in the minority. I get the appeal of the happy ending, because I love them, too; yet I find myself drawn to the intensity of emotion that tragedy gives me in a way that no generically happy or even flat-emotion well-written story will give me. And I've frequently found that the people who tend toward the darker, more tragedic stuff often are truly great writers -- in fandom, my love for really sad stuff has led me to some of the best writers in many fandoms not my own, most of whom share my love of tragedy. When I've brought up these names to some friends, they tell me that they may have read one or two lighter things by them, but that they "can't read her stuff because it's too dark [or sad, or has death]." What a loss for them! I think.

I can't help connecting that interest in exploring the tragedic with good writing, as well, because it seems like the stuff I admire most is prose that really delves into the deepest of human emotions -- and that will often mean feelings such as grief, loss, longing, regret. It's much easier to run out of things to say about happiness; grief can go on for longer, it seems. And happiness or contentment have a kind of plateau effect. Without conflict, there's no real storytelling, even though conflict can be as small as the details of daily life, or as large as a life-or-death struggle. What happens with the basic fanfic story of getting the characters together, having sex, and then giving them a happy ending or keeping the story going in shopping for curtains land is that we often hit a level where there isn't even the most minute type of conflict going on -- it's just generic. It's really only the good writers who get how to keep the emotion alive; but quality doesn't necessarily carry weight in fandom, because most people only want to see the characters on a page and aren't necessarily interested in plumbing the dark depths of human emotions with them, regardless of the writing style.

Which I get, in a way, but I also don't get, because I can't imagine wanting to spend time reading if I'm not going to be pulled into something intense and emotionally precarious. The truth is, I don't understand the desire for fanfic lite, or lit lite -- I know it's far more universally appealing, but it's just not something I'm that drawn to, so I'll probably never really understand it. I remember few stories I've read in fandom, I almost never reread, but the ones I do come back to are almost always deeply affecting, beautifully written, and intensely tragedic or haunting. Risky, experimental, devastating, dark... those stick with me. It can leave me feeling wrung out, incredibly sad, hopeless, melancholy, whatever... but it will almost always leave an indelible impression on me, as well.

And selfishly, it's where I know I'm in my element. The best stuff I've written in each of the fandoms I've done fanfic in has always been the sad stuff -- a death story in The Professionals, two grief-centric, regret-centric stories in X-Files, an illness/winter of our lives story in Magnificent 7, and two really hopeless, dark pieces in Buffy. I know that that's when I write best -- when I can explore those intense, really tragic aspects of human nature -- and that I will come up with something stronger and better written than any other time. It's not that I like that sadness in real life; I've had more than enough of personal tragedy in the past decade, thanks; yet I still long for that intensity in fiction. Same thing for vids -- my strongest vids are almost always the ones people tell me made them cry or react like they'd been punched in the gut. That's what I want, because that's the feeling I like to receive most when I read or view.

What I love in death stories most is when one character is forced to try to live without the other partner -- there's so much there to understand, to develop in how they cope, what their loss feels like, that I can't imagine missing out on that. Especially making the strong silent one suffer the loss -- what an emotional wing-ding that is! I love the flashbacks to their relationship, I love the nuances of their recovery (or not), I love seeing how they grapple with a future devoid of the One True Love of their life. While I have no desire to experience it in real life, in fanfic I can wallow and escape to their pain and still come out unscarred.

Of course, I know that's what a lot of people have issues with -- they don't leave the story unscarred. They can't separate their love for the characters from the loss of their characters, and it's harder to see it as escape. Though since most fans won't read them, I'm also thinking they don't know what else they're missing in terms of Gigantic Emotions and unforgettable stories. It's a big ocean in between the two countries -- fans who hate death stories think you're a masochistic freak for liking them; fans who love them think the ones who don't are pussies. Never the twain shall meet, I fear. There's so much misery and suffering in the world right now, why add to it by tormenting yourself with the pain and suffering of characters you love as if they were a part of your real life? That's nearly impossible to explain, I fear, especially since I've rarely seen anyone explain feelings about art to someone who doesn't share those feelings, and have the other person come away with understanding or interest. Each person brings a unique personal standard or belief to art, so you can't hope to bridge the gap, even if the people on the other side are your friends. All the academic musings and justifications in the world don't change how people react to these things on a personal level.

So I will write my story and know that even fewer of my friends in the fandom will read it, and I'll be sad about that, but I know going in it's going to happen. In my first writer's group out of college, I brought a short story to the group and no one wanted to read it, because they'd got used to me bringing these depressing, sad, painful, or really disturbing stories all the time and they thought the title meant yet another one. It was the first "nice" story I'd really written, but I had a tough time convincing them. Every time I'd submit a story to a magazine, I'd get a lovely note from an editor telling me how much they liked it, but that it was too dark for their readership. The only story I ever actually got paid for (rather than trib copies) was, of course, "nice." And the lit-fic novel I keep feinting at writing is based on my great-uncle's murder while he was a border guard in 1928 on the Southern California border; I'm sure that has a great chance of being sold, even if I wrote the best novel ever. There's just so much drama there, so much emotion to mine, but the audience that wants such drama is actually pretty small in any population.

Yet, oddly, most of the great literature and the great films are based around tragedy, especially death. I think one of the most important elements that made Lord of the Rings so successful was that they never shied away from the huge emotional resonance of character death -- the filmmakers never gave in to that modern need to keep all heroes alive and make all bad guys dead at the end. These days, if you kill off a major character, you can expect your audience to drop by half, if not more. And in fandom, I think, that may be an even larger number. In a small fandom like F&F, that's a significant loss of readership; in Pros, maybe not as much back in the heyday when Endgame came out (and dammit, I wish I had made a copy of that when I could have).

While I get the tendency to want nothing bad to happen to characters I love, I also want rich, deep emotional shadings, so I'm much more inclined to that dark stuff. I never loved Chris and Vin as deeply as when I wrote Cold Enough to Snow, and even though no one dies in it, people still classify it as death or tragedy, just because of an illness. To me, that gave me a platform for showing just how deep human emotions run, or how intensely people can love, and I think that fandom would be a poorer place without those types of stories to spice up the otherwise often bland fare we are usually offered. Without things like death stories, or illness, or loss of some kind, there would be a sameness that wouldn't be unlike what we're frequently force-fed on the shows we're following. Too much of any type of story would be bad, so the tragedic gives us something besides the same old 1-2-3 type story. We may be a small group, but I know we're out there. With our big box of Kleenex, but we're out there.

Comments

[umbo.livejournal.com]

This was a really interesting post to read. I can sort of see both sides of the issues involved--I *do* often read stories, novels, watch movies, whatever, for the escapist angle, just something with a happy ending and not necessarily requiring a big emotional or intellectual investment. And there are also pieces of art that have happy endings or might appear escapist that are actually very well-crafted and with deep layers and all that.

But I also really get a lot of of darker things, which often require much more in terms of investment, the kind of investment not everyone is willing to make. Shows like Homicide, Farscape, The Wire, The Shield, are darker in tone and also not as suited for pure escapism--you need to make a commitment to watching and paying attention. That commitment has a pretty cool pay-off, but it is a certain amount of work, and not everyone is willing to do that.

And I'm not always willing to make that commitment to a story, because I do tend to see fanfic as more of a direct escape. I've never refused to read a story just because it had a death in it, though, and I have written deathfic--and had some of the same problems you're talking about, with betas who didn't want to read the story, let alone beta it; feeling like it was one of my strongest stories and yet was not getting the response other things did, etc.

On the other hand, I as a writer sometimes have a hard time making the commitment to write something deeper (and often darker) as well--I want my stories to be good, to be respected, but I also am conscious of the escapism of what I want to read. I'm not articulating this that well, because it's not completely clear to me either--there are shades of grey and points along a line, and I'm not sure I'm the best person to judge where I or anyone else is on that line.

Anyway, your post made me think, as your posts usually do, and I want to encourage you to continue to write the stories you want to write, that you feel strongly about, whether or not they end up killing off any beloved characters.

[gwyn-r.livejournal.com]

I think that gets to a lot of what interests me about it -- that there are shades of grey. I mean, a steady diet of death or sad stories would be too much, but it's interesting in that as a genre, the death story is so universally, completely avoided by most fans. I hate certain types of stories, but have always given in to read them when a friend pimped them hard enough. But I know people who unequivocally will never bend for death/tragedy. They might for somethng else like non-con they hate, but not for death. I find it interesting (if also not a little bit annoying) that it's such a strongly reacted-to genre.

[stakebait.livejournal.com]

Beautifully said. I'll always be a lover of the sad songs, but actually I read both with great pleasure, though I write the sad ones better.

As a reader, I tend to find the sad stuff hits me harder for all the reasons you so eloquently describe, but a steady diet of it would be too much and it would lose its punch. So I alternate happily, and am most muzzily overjoyed when I find a world where I can alternate without having to leave. Buffy, both show and fic, is great for that.

[gwyn-r.livejournal.com]

Yes, definitely. One of the greatest moments ever for me was when Buffy killed Angel in Becoming. But it isn't a thing you want to have all the time -- at the very least, it loses its impact, at most, you start to feel like you're trapped in a Russian literature class for eternity. ;-)

[stakebait.livejournal.com]

you start to feel like you're trapped in a Russian literature class for eternity

Ack! That's what's going to happen to me in the next life if I don't finish a novel in this one. *grin*

[lierdumoa.livejournal.com]

Interesting post! Personally, I tend to stay away from deathfic. Oddly, when it comes to vids, the more screwed up and twisted it is the more I like it. I the case of Jossverse vids, I enjoy when they capture the same heartless tragedy of the show. Conversely, I tend to like my fic happy. And porny. At least most of the time. I can sometimes go in for a good tragedy, but not too often.

[gwyn-r.livejournal.com]

That's actually not unusual -- liking dark vids, but not fic. In fact, I almost think it's more common. I like both, but I know people who won't touch the fic, but will happily devour hours of super dark vids.

Life After Death Stories

[maygra.livejournal.com]

We touched on this a little (or I did) in email. Truth is, if you wrote a death story in TF&TF, I'd probably read it, because it's you and I trust you as a writer. I'm not saying it would make me happy, and it would probably make me cry...

I was trying to equate this to people's aversions to AU's...in that the problem with AU's is that they don't represent the characters in the original setting...where they play more to archetypes than the actual characters we fall in love with. Now pretty obviously, AU's aren't a problem for me [G]...but I think the corollary stands, in that generally in source, the characters are alive at the end of whatever...

Granted people can be in great heaps of denial when a character does die in the series (Stargate and Horatio Hornblower are pretty blatant examples of characters surviving their deaths in fan fic.)

The loss aspect doesn't bother me so much. I tend to play that a lot -- My Partner's dead, Just Kidding! is a theme I'm very fond of.

I also like dark, but I don't know. To take it to death both bothers me because fandom is an escape and I really don't necessarily want my real life tragedies to follow me into the realm I go for comfort...and also, because I'm not sure I'm entirely with the idea that death is the only (or the best) way to hit that depth of emotion you're talking about.

I do think you should write what you want regardless of audience, because I know that for me, the writing I do is primarily for me. It's the betaing and posting that's for the audience.

I guess also, I don't often find fan fic fare that bland because of repetitive themes. There's nothing as thrilling for me as when a writer takes a fairly common theme and puts a new spin on it.

I think on some level I find most death fic to be manipulative on a fairly blatant and obvious manner and it makes me a little nuts. I know a piece J did in M7 had me clawing the ceiling because it was both horribly painful and incredibly well written. My reaction to it really was pretty alarming...even as emotional as I can be.

Then again, I was never a huge fan of Romeo & Juliet and I pretty much thought Hamlet got what he deserved. Or maybe it's my personal experience with death that pretty much makes me disbelieve and get angry at the portrayals of death as uber romantic, like Love Story or Brian's Song.

So, it's very much a case that it's not that I really think death stories are bad and wrong as much as my reaction to them is so very out of step with what they often are, that avoidance is the more prudent choice for me, in most cases.

Re: Life After Death Stories

[gwyn-r.livejournal.com]

Heee -- you may have hit it right there -- I loved Romeo and Juliet, and Brian's Song, and all that kinda stuff. It's so saaad...

Believe me, I know that people hate these kinds of stories -- Tina will probably kill me as soon as she hears about me writing this. ;-) For some reason, I find a lot of that "My partner's dead, just kidding!" stuff and stories where one partner is tortured/tormented/injured severely and you're supposed to hang on through the whole story wondering what will happen to be more manipulative than death, but it may also be that those tend to be written by people who are copping out on the death thing -- like, they won't go far enough, so it ends up being accidentally manipulative, if you know what I mean. I can't think of anything off the top of my head to illustrate, though.

I like uncertainty of course, but I think too often the tenterhooks thing is almost more of a cheat than actual death would be. But the worst thing I ever saw was this story in Pros that was really, truly beautiful and affecting in its sadness, and you're thinking it's a death story, and then it's all a Dallas dream... arg! I hate that!

I will not expect you to read the story, btw. It's the only type of story I will ever put a warning on, and I would never expect people to read it. I learned a long time ago that it's not gonna happen, so I'm cool with that.

Re: Life After Death Stories

[maygra.livejournal.com]

If I thought I could convince you to read Credens up to about the mid point I would...not because I'm trying to persuade you to AU's but because in a truly academic fashion, I'm wondering if what's there might not actually provide the fix of pain and loss you are talking about.

J and I have talked about this *a lot* (and she would probably be gloriously happy if you wrote a death fic -- not so much in TF&TF, but in Mag7. I think you'd make her very happy.)

Because I do get the adoration and deeply sad comfort of the idea of loss, of recovery -- of the surviving partner going on (Which may be why I'm less likely to react strongly to a story that starts after the actual death of the partner. Maybe it has something to do with my preference for beginnings, not endings. [Maygra pokes at thought with a very long pointy stick.]

And of course, now you have me intrigued. Gah.

Anyway, I think I can stand *some* if they are extremly well-written..I don't think I've actually found many that hit that criteria that actually confronts loss in a way that makes me (queen of melodrama that I am) not think they are overly melodramatic with much gnashing of teeth...which. really...I seriously hate.

Or maybe it really is that empty, hollow place I hate.

[mlyn.livejournal.com]

Oh, man. I would love for you to read A Gesture Life. Talk about an escapist story of loss and regret. If you're looking for good lit that fits that description, there you have it. Of course I'm always pimping Housekeeping too, but its prose is more melancholy than sad.

I never figured we'd have yet another thing in common--the minority "who do find tragedy to be a rich and powerful reading experience"--but here it is. The entire reason I made my Gesture Life LJ header last weekend was because I was feeling depressed and couldn't keep myself *away* from the prose and mood of the book/art. I'm really on your boat with this entire post...and, maybe ironically, the way you wrote even this felt pretty poignant. I got all choked up at the end of it. I'm weird.

This opinion sounds kinda funny when I told you how I wanted part 4 to end, huh? :/ I just don't feel like pulling a fast one on the people who have already read the first three parts. I have other TFatF fic ideas rolling around, so maybe I'll incorporate something melancholy into them. No death just for the sake of death, but something interesting and angsty for the sake of keeping the attention of people like you, who are much more discerning about the content of their reading list.

Will you rec me some of the stories that have made a real impression on you? No need to be concerned about fandom...I just want to see how the good stuff is done.

[gwyn-r.livejournal.com]

A Gesture Life is on my list of books, but I haven't read much at all this year. I was too depressed after losing my job and now I never have any freaking time. I really miss bus commuting and being able to just inhale books by the pound.

I think the escapism thing is really at the root of it all -- most people just will never agree that escapism can encompass something depressing or sad. There's just no room in their makeup for that. Escapism is lightweight or happy ending or whatever. You can't have unhappy and escape. Which is totally baffling to me, but... there you are. Biiig ocean.

[mlyn.livejournal.com]

If you ever get any time, I'd be happy to lend it to you. varina8 is in line first, though. ;)

[dine.livejournal.com]

guess I qualify as "a masochistic freak" then, because often the really dark, intensely angsty stories (including death stories) are the ones I treasure, the ones I go back and reread, the ones I think about most often.

I enjoy lighter, happy stuff, but for me the more intense emotions are not generally gleeful or really happy; and I want that reality reflected even in my 'escapism' into fanfic.

so, if you write your death story, I'll be here waiting to read it. I'm sure I'll mourn that death, and hurt for the survivor, but the story will affect me, unlike the many cookie-cutter bland ones (not so much in *this* fandom) that I quickly forget.

[cathexys.livejournal.com]

what a wonderful post! so many excellent issues you raised!!! we are at the end of the day a pretty generic (as in genre :-) bunch, aren't we???

i think there may be one thing, however, worse than death stories, which is the ones where they fall out of love (or have never been)...i'm thinking of something like kat allison's end of the road, where you want them to make it with every fiber of your being. b/c death can still retain that moment of love that transcends...everydayness, however, seems the true opposite of romance (in fact, hatred doesn't count either...i don't give a damn is the real kiss of death :-)

i think personally i avoid death fics for two reasons. one is exactly what you describe: i'm invested in the characters and their true love and happy togetherness, and death really doesn't fit the image (old age death stories after a long happy life together are thus not that much a problem...) the other reason i tend to avoid deathfic--unless i totally trust the writer--is that all too often is becomes melodramatic. death to make the hero realize that he loved after all; death before he could confess his love; death to make a point (and now that i'm thinking about it, it might at times be that spiteful death that resembles our teenage utter self-involved 'i wish i were dead so you'd feel guilty'...)

so yes, if death is not deus ex machina for the author to create angst; if it genuinely becomes a plot element to explore emotions, i'll read it (though there are still many times when ff needs to be pure escape for me and i'd probably hesitate in that mood...)

[lapillus]

Interesting thoughts.

I love dark, angsty stories, including death stories, but I detest wallows. I'm actually rather fond of stories where everyone ends up dead as it tends to prevent the wallowing. *g* I'm also very fond of stories where someone dies and the survivor(s) picks up and, while still in deep and recognizable pain, goes on and does what needs to be done to deal with whatever situation remains.

Also, I have to say that death fic doesn't always lose you readership. The two stories I've gotten the most feedback on over the years are both deathfic. This may have to do with the fandoms (Mulder/Krycek, Jack/Daniel) as much as the stories but I'm not really sure.

[kassrachel.livejournal.com]

This is a really wonderful and eloquent essay. (I expect cereta would be delighted to publish it at the Fanfiction Symposium, if that sort of thing interests you. It would be an asset to the site, I think.)

You manage here to explain to me what it might feel like to enjoy death stories, which is no small feat, given that I'm fairly orthodox about wanting stories which end happily, or at least with some hope for redemption. Still, I'm amused by your point that many fans (myself included) will read curtainfic if it's recommended, but will shy away from (even well-rec'd) death stories because we don't want to ride that rollercoaster.

Rollercoasters may not be a bad analogy, actually. I can't stand them. They scare me. *g* I know people who love them, and I can kind of imagine what it would feel like to love them, but they make me feel ill. Just so, the emotional ride of a good death story -- I can appreciate the aesthetic, but it's just not a ride I relish.

[(Anonymous)]

Me like death, rain and songs in the minor key. You not alone.

Morgan "More Depressing Than Death" Dawn

[paris7am.livejournal.com]

Thank god for people who can think clearly and translate their thoughts into writing so well! Death stories. My own feelings for them change from day to day. I think that most of the death fic I've read has been a surprise, with no warning, and perhaps that's the way I like it to happen - a stunning avalanche of emotion. Catharsis. If I read warnings, and I'm unfamiliar with an author, I will usually shy away from them toward something safer, but if I love an authors work I'll read it all. I anticipate *loving* this new story.

Can you direct me to Cold Enough to Snow? I thought I'd devoured all of your writing, but I haven't seen it before.

[gwyn-r.livejournal.com]

It's at my web site, http://www.drizzle.com/~gwyneth. Scroll down to the Mag 7 section, under Buffy. It's on a lot of links/recs pages, too -- for some reason it's the one Mag 7 story that got "out there" in the genral fandom. And all of mine are at the blackraptor slash archive, as well.

[jcalanthe]

Very interesting post - thanks for writing this up. I suspect I'll be pondering the idea of deathfic, etc as escapism for a while. I think probably it has something to do with what one is escaping from. There's definitely times when I appreciate a good sad story (I own Fried Green Tomatoes - it's one of my favorite films, and the death scene makes me cry every single time), but there's other times when I'm wanting to escape from strong emotions & so avoid sadfic like the plague.

As an aside, I adore this phrasing: with the zeal of a newly converted vegan. Such a great image, and so true! :)