![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
So that was a thing that I saw.
Because I am petty and small and vindictive, I loved the fact that when Tony (and anyone else) first appeared on screen it was quiet, but when Steve appeared on screen our nearly sold-out theatre erupted into cheers and applause. Marvel has this idea that people only care about Iron Man and Spider-Man, and I loved hearing the audience prove them wrong, even if Marvel and especially Feige never listen. (Also loved the cheers for Thor and his axe.)
I leaned over at one point and said to minim calibre, who loves Cumberbatch and tolerates my intense hatred of him as an actor and Sherlock as a character he plays, "I am absolutely loving him in this. What is happening to me?" Every time he dragged Tony I wanted to high five him, he was freaking hilarious. I…the universe is unsettled. I not only liked Crumplesnatch, I liked freaking Dr. Strange, a character I have never cared one molecule for.
Totally called Red Skull. No one believed me when I said that.
I don't see this as producing a lot of fic, or at least, what I want to read. I see this as the fandom I've known and loved for four years, Steve/Bucky and the Cap Family (with Sam and Nat), either rage-quitting or just drifting away in sadness. I've watched this happen before to open canon fandoms with deaths or cast culling. I'm feeling very sad about this. I'd love it if fandom proved me wrong, but I've been in fandom a damn long time… And I'm already hearing from people that seeing Bucky die in front of Steve's eyes again was a bridge too far, even with comic-book rules.
I'm going to have to see it again just to process things. Plus catch all the lines I didn't hear!
Because I am petty and small and vindictive, I loved the fact that when Tony (and anyone else) first appeared on screen it was quiet, but when Steve appeared on screen our nearly sold-out theatre erupted into cheers and applause. Marvel has this idea that people only care about Iron Man and Spider-Man, and I loved hearing the audience prove them wrong, even if Marvel and especially Feige never listen. (Also loved the cheers for Thor and his axe.)
I leaned over at one point and said to minim calibre, who loves Cumberbatch and tolerates my intense hatred of him as an actor and Sherlock as a character he plays, "I am absolutely loving him in this. What is happening to me?" Every time he dragged Tony I wanted to high five him, he was freaking hilarious. I…the universe is unsettled. I not only liked Crumplesnatch, I liked freaking Dr. Strange, a character I have never cared one molecule for.
Totally called Red Skull. No one believed me when I said that.
I don't see this as producing a lot of fic, or at least, what I want to read. I see this as the fandom I've known and loved for four years, Steve/Bucky and the Cap Family (with Sam and Nat), either rage-quitting or just drifting away in sadness. I've watched this happen before to open canon fandoms with deaths or cast culling. I'm feeling very sad about this. I'd love it if fandom proved me wrong, but I've been in fandom a damn long time… And I'm already hearing from people that seeing Bucky die in front of Steve's eyes again was a bridge too far, even with comic-book rules.
I'm going to have to see it again just to process things. Plus catch all the lines I didn't hear!
no subject
Date: 2018-04-27 08:02 pm (UTC)I really enjoyed the Dr. Strange movie, even tho I agree with you about Cumberbund, as you know. It's a good movie, tho. He's easier to look at with the goatee. Heh.
no subject
Date: 2018-04-27 08:58 pm (UTC)As much as I love multiple ships in it, at the core I've always been Steve/Bucky. That's what's always given me the most joy, the thing that makes my heart beat fastest. But the Cap family barely existed in this. It felt like it was a movie about other people with a cameo by Team Cap and the Wakandans. I don't know if that'll be reversed in 4, like you were speculating. Right now my heart just hurts. I've had enough people in real life die in front of my eyes or in my arms to enjoy this sort of thing anymore. Steve losing everyone again is just…hard to bear right now. I guess he still has Nat though. Maybe he'll hit it off with Carol and they can be super buddies when she shows up to save the day. (I wish you had time and energy to write, too! That would mean your life is not so stressful!)
Yeah, I also mentioned to min that I was surprised how much I didn't totally hate Dr. Strange the movie. Like, I didn't like it, but I didn't also want to spork my eyeballs out. I remember very little of it other than the cape. :-D Definitely think the goatee helps his face. He was just so funny in this though, the way him and Tony were sparking off each other.
no subject
Date: 2018-04-27 08:13 pm (UTC)That is amazing!! How did you know?
I don't see this as producing a lot of fic, or at least, what I want to read.
I've been seeing a lot of people going "Well this is BETTER than when he was in the freezer in Wakanda" and I'm just like....really? Wha? Like, apparently they think he could be time-travelling or in another dimension or in Wonderland with Alice or whatever, but....it was pretty clear everyone died. I could fankwank them all going to the soul planet maybe, since that was where Teentsy Gamora? was, but how are they going to get out? They're just going to have to be rescued, so anythin anyone writes will be jossed. IDK. I know fandom loves to play with the narrative but that just felt nasty.
I see this as the fandom I've known and loved for four years, Steve/Bucky and the Cap Family (with Sam and Nat), either rage-quitting or just drifting away in sadness. I've watched this happen before to open canon fandoms with deaths or cast culling. I'm feeling very sad about this. I'd love it if fandom proved me wrong, but I've been in fandom a damn long time…
Well I keep meaning to write my latest Stucky fic! it's just sort of in that post-TWS bubble where I take a hard left at AoU and nobody's going to want to read it, heh. We might see booty-call-in-Wakanda fics? Again IDK. It seemed like Stucky fandom really stalled out after CW (altho people kept telling me no no, more and more fics are being written!....mostly modern AUs). I hope it doesn't happen even more now. But it feels like the same situation as CW: open-ended (like a LITERAL CLIFFHANGER, this time) but also too final (Bucky being frozen, Bucky being....IDEFK, smoke-disapparated).
And I'm already hearing from people that seeing Bucky die in front of Steve's eyes again was a bridge too far, even with comic-book rules.
Yeah, I don't want to see that. I saw a fucking terrible camrip and that was bad enough. I don't want to see that on the big screen. Steve carrying Peggy's coffin was bad enough in CW. (It doesn't help I think the Russos totally under-directed Evans in most of the clips I saw, like they did in CW.)
Marvel has this idea that people only care about Iron Man and Spider-Man
I've heard "Well they didn't have time for a big long farewell with Bucky and Steve, he was in shock, it was perfectly legit," and LOL with the long fucking operatic goodbyyyyyyyye with Tony and Peter. And in AoU Cap was the one dying in his arms! Feels like they really are phasing Cap out, and not in a great way.
Cumberbatch is an unsettlingly good actor. I saw him in Fifth Estate and as Guy Burgess in a BBC thing and was like, whoah, he really is them. I think I formed my impression of him in stuff that was just terrible, like BBC Sherlock or Imitation Game. He was about as terribly miscast in Hollow Crown as Hiddles.
no subject
Date: 2018-04-27 08:22 pm (UTC)(He'll also throw himself into a role with such complete commitment that he'll wind up injuring himself, which he did multiple times during Danny Boyle's Frankenstein during his turns as the Creature.)
It's a deep shame that he keeps doing the Srs Bsns stuff instead of MOAR FUNNY THINGS.
no subject
Date: 2018-04-27 09:10 pm (UTC)(But I do still wish they'd stop casting him in everything and playing everyone. Fatigue might have a little to do with my antipathy. Also, being funny makes him way, way less cold of an actor for me, and that's been my number one complaint with him, how cold and remote he is. He's just so alive in this.)
no subject
Date: 2018-04-27 09:48 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2018-04-27 10:15 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2018-04-27 09:58 pm (UTC)(Look, I think Lilly was five or six when I found that originally, so I've seen it a lot.)
no subject
Date: 2018-04-27 09:06 pm (UTC)That is amazing!! How did you know?
Well, I think about this stuff too much, and I rewatch First Avenger almost as much as I rewatch Winter Soldier. And I'm using some of the visual information about the Skull holding the teseract at the end in my Cap RBB fic, so I've been paying a lot of attention to that.
But the sky that opens up behind Schmidt when he's holding the cosmic cube looks an awful lot like the galaxy sky above Asgard that we see in the first Thor movie, and I've been speculating that he'd show up again at some point--he dissolves, kind of burns up in the movie from holding the stone (not quite the superior man he thinks he is), and even though it's a different stone, I figured it was sending him somewhere, most likely in some sort of position where he was locked to a stone or to some sort of space where he couldn't escape unless he had another cube or stone. In the comics there are other cosmic cubes, but I figured that, if any movie was going to show us where Schmidt disappeared to, it would be the one where Thanos is accumulating the stones. I wasn't sure in what capacity, but him being tied to the soul stone was a great way to lock him into that space that he couldn't escape from.
no subject
Date: 2018-04-27 10:09 pm (UTC)Hmmm, that seems more like the people who went poof are going to be in some other dimension or in the soul stone or on the soul planet or wherever. Not that they're gone 'forever' (i.e. until the next moneymaker). Which I would think might upset the cosmic balance thing....? because if they are, then their souls are existing and somehow corporeal? but nevermind, it obviously doesn't have to make sense.
no subject
Date: 2018-04-27 09:12 pm (UTC)But yes, I am heartbroken over Bucky (& Steve), but the heartbreak also came from areas I wasn't expecting: T'Challa & Okoye, Peter & Gamora in Knowhere, Peter & Tony, Fury & Hill.
p.s. I was surprised by Red Skull. Also, it's not Hugo Weaving, it's Ross Marquand who does great imitations/mimicry of actors and of Hugo Weaving apparently.
no subject
Date: 2018-04-27 10:10 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2018-04-27 10:14 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2018-04-27 10:22 pm (UTC)Thanos neck-snapping Loki right in front of Thor was just brutal. (I saw a truckload of clips before they all got snatched off reddit, hah.) It was like a foreshadowing of how he killed Vision too. Just tossed them aside like trash once he got what he wanted.
I thought RDJ acted the hell out of that scene (under-acted, really, his eyes are so huge and communicative!) but I just don't like Holland, he's way too young for me. I also thought if we got a long operatic farewell for Peter dying in Tony's arms, Steve and Bucky could have gotten longer than ten seconds. (I also really, really could have done without the prolonged slo-mo Wanda-and-Thanos-paired "I kill the person I loooooove!" bits.)
But Sam really hurt because I hadn't read the comics when I saw TWS and so didn't know anything about Falcon, and I spent like half the movie chanting "No killing Sam! No killing Sam!" because I was so sure as the brother, he would go out -- something like Bucky killing him and then Steve felt Bad, whatever. And I was so totally pleased and surprised when he didn't (and Fury didn't either). And it was like they wiped that away in five seconds. Nobody saw him, he didn't have anybody, it was like he didn't matter.
no subject
Date: 2018-04-27 10:28 pm (UTC)I'm actually happy that they even get to hug this time and get a bit of banter -- talk about setting the bar really really low.
no subject
Date: 2018-04-27 10:35 pm (UTC)FEIGE: ....granted.
//EVIL SMILE AS HE PLOTS BUCKY COLLAPSING IN A PILE OF DIRT AS STEVE STARES BLANKLY FROM LIKE 30 FEET AWAY
no subject
Date: 2018-04-27 10:39 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2018-04-27 10:52 pm (UTC)440050% will return and family hug!....part of why I'm so salty is Marvel got me back INTO fandom. I started writing again after years and years of not writing anything. And now I'm just like "Seriously, you raptured a ton of the cast? And murdered more? What do I do with THIS?"
no subject
Date: 2018-04-27 11:01 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2018-04-28 12:21 am (UTC)ETA: Also meant to say that it was very hard to watch Okoye watch her king and her friend die, that would just destroy her. I also really thought it would be either Fury or Hill, but not both, which was a gut punch.
no subject
Date: 2018-04-28 12:33 am (UTC)Here, for one thing, it's a lot of story or stories, actually, that almost coalesced -- but I really have to comment the Russos for accomplishing that feat. And aside from that, we are in limbo for one year and 1 month. We don't know who's coming back, who dies again and who among the ones who didn't die now will die most likely permanently a year from now. I think for me, that's where the anxiety and unrest comes from.
no subject
Date: 2018-05-02 05:02 am (UTC)I also wasn't thrilled with the whole Malthusian thing and "the good of the many outweighs the good of the one" but those were almost incidental compared to how fucking grim it was.
no subject
Date: 2018-04-27 11:52 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2018-04-28 12:32 am (UTC)I was surprised by how lackluster the response was when it was over. Like, most of the movies have had thunderous applause at the end (even a few days on), and I would guess only half the house was applauding at this, and I heard more than a few "what the fuck"s and a lot of stunned silence. There was quite a bit of confusion, too, about Carol's symbol on Nick's …pager…thing, and I think that added to the lack of response.
no subject
Date: 2018-05-02 05:09 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2018-05-03 02:04 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2018-04-28 01:04 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2018-04-28 05:43 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2018-04-28 03:13 pm (UTC)I was just the opposite after watching this; I expected there to be lots of fix-it fic, so I will be very disappointed if there aren't. I mean, I think Marvel is going to fix it after tearing out our hearts and laughing, but I would love to see the ideas fandom comes up with to do it.
I had the bare bones idea for a Steve | Steve/Bucky tag, and yeah, it was frelling SAD being from Steve's POV and all.
I'm definitely going to see it again, too. And maybe I'll take some notes.
no subject
Date: 2018-04-29 09:07 pm (UTC)All that said, though, I am hoping to see myself proven wrong, and I don't necessarily mind seeing it from Steve's POV because I feel like he got really, really shafted in this and we had almost no reactions from him, so I hope you will write that and post it. I hope all my friends list will write stuff and post and I can sit there in my wrongness and be wrong.
no subject
Date: 2018-04-30 05:14 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2018-05-02 05:17 am (UTC)YES, YES. I think for me it's a combination of feeling nearly all the solo movies finished their individual stories but still left stuff open, so there was room for fic, but the team movies closed everything down (BUT also left us hanging in limbo for the next team movie). And LBR, the solo movies have become more and more like sub-team movies because everything is marching toward these big two conclusions (case in point, "Captain America" Civil War). What I'm hearing people talk about is "what if Bucky's in another realm and he and Steve could still communicate and people are in another dimension" and I'm....just not thrilled with that. Or super duper Steve angst, and I'm just like, poor Steve has had ENOUGH angst. Watching his lifetime BFF crumble into CGI dust was just piling on the agony.
And in this case I've just hated the canon for a while now (Aou, CW) and I don't even want to read fix-its for all that. Those aren't the stories I fell in love with that made me want to write about the characters.