Horsies and cowboys and guns, oh my

[gwyn]

Even though I had a million things to do this weekend, I found myself hunched over the computer for hours on end, working feverishly to finish my Magnificent 7 vid for Escapade's vid show. (Though why I worked so hard to get it done rightthisweekend I don't know, considering that we don't even have info on where to send the vids and the deadline is but three weeks away... you'd think that having been on the vid comm for going on oh, 7 or 8 years, I'd have inside info, but you would be wrong.) Probably so that I could get beta input because it sucks, I'm pretty sure. And I've never made a Mag 7 vid without feochadn and she will probably watch it and get that tortured face she gets when she wants to say something negative and is searching for a polite way to tell me it sucks, but then she'll just tell me it sucks and I will cry and pout and then go, "Well, it's all I've got, so I'm showing it anyway."

And the worst part is that I don't even know why I'm torturing my own self over this stupid vid because if I've learned anything from showing two separate Mag 7 vids and one Tombstone vid at Escapade, a vid show that I'm growing increasingly dispirited about because of the pointless, calculated meanness and nastiness and general whinage that I addressed last year in this post, it's that the vid, no matter how good or bad, will elicit a response from all but three other people (you know who you are!) ranging from veiled dismissals about how meaningless my fandom is to outright "ew"s because it's a true Western. There are defintely more Mag 7 fans at the con than there were the last time we showed a Mag 7 vid there, but most of them are of the "Chris & Vin bad, Ezra or Buck good" variety, and I've even had people tell me Chris and Vin make them sick. Literally. Always one of those things that makes you feel encouraged to show your vid!

I think in the time since I made Stripped, my Fast and the Furious vid, I've pretty much forgotten how to vid. Or lost whatever small gift I had (and yes, I know the emphasis is on small). I couldn't really take the time to learn Final Cut, so I went back to iMovie for this, and that's okay because it's a pretty straightforward series with little movement. Most of the motion comes from people on horseback, so right now the vid feels like it's just people on horsies. Bleh. Or Vin tipping his hat, which I've come to realize he does about every five minutes. I kept struggling with how to create movement in a fairly static series, and how to judge length of cuts. Because it's often still, the movement that is important to get for the vid makes it harder to do short cuts, because you lose the significance of the motion. But the music is too fast and beat-driven to use longer cuts too often. I just couldn't get a handle on it, as if every skill I'd learned in 10+ years of being involved in vid-making had just poof! disappeared. Kind of dispiriting.

And especially dispiriting knowing that I'm going to have to listen to the usual craptastic comments after the con, not because they're judging the vid, but because they're judging the fandom. At Escapade if you're not doing the top 3 fandoms these days, or you're doing the wrong pairing in something well-liked (for instance, I wanted to do a Hornblower vid, but I know better than to bring a vid centered on Horatio and Pellew to the Archie-obsessed fans that predominate HH fandom), then you're pretty much guaranteed those smarmy, shitty remarks, even if you avoid comment sheets like I do. This is the hardest part about fannish vidding, to me -- dismissal of fandoms outright because they're not yours, without even giving the vidder a chance to prove herself. Some people are actually pretty darn good storytellers, even for fandoms people aren't familiar with (there were only about two people in the Vividcon audience two cons ago who knew Miracles, for instance, but most people liked feochadn's and my Darkness, Darkness and felt they understood the story), but there are always the people in the audience who won't even let you try to tell them a story. Either they just shut off because it's not my fandom, or they overintellectualize something as being impossible to understand because they don't know the fandom, even if there's no story to intellectualize and it's just very obvious, lightweight stuff.

So once I finished I found myself sitting there going, now, why did I bust my hump on this again? So I can be put down and insulted for my stupid Western fandom? So I can listen to post-con comments that make me feel small and worthless? I mean, I can make myself feel small and worthless on a daily basis, I don't need help from the mean crappy people who are taking over Escapade these days... I'm a *pro* at making myself feel bad ahead of time. When I was doing film criticism, I got really depressed about how quick to judge genre most other critics were. I'd go the press screenings and listen to the bigwig movie reviewers filing out, talking about the crappy things they'd say about a good solid action movie like the original First Blood -- just because it was action. Or science fiction -- I remember being the only person in town who had good things to say about Blade Runner when it came out, and then 10 years later they were falling all over themselves about it. All I could remember was thinking, "Yeah, I heard you when we were leaving the theatre, you ass, and you were excited about skewering it." Showing things at the Escapade vid show reminds me of that these days. If it's not Fargateville, you're pretty much guaranteed that a vocal group will disparage your fandom just because it's not the "right" fandom, and if you dare to show a Western... well, god have mercy on your little vidding soul.

I must be nuts, or masochistic. Or both. I should know better by now. I guess I just wanted to make another vid with my pretty cowboys in love. But showing it at that audience... probably not worth the torment I've put myself through. And it probably sucks, but I'd love to think that the vid itself will be judged by its worth -- good or bad -- and not the fandom, though I know that's impossible these days.

Comments

[gwyn-r.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure I understood the last part... did you mean because you no longer care about the fandom? I probably don't get it because I never really leave a fandom (just stop producing when I run out of ideas) so sometimes when people say things like that, I'm like, buh? What? It doesn't compute -- but is that what you meant?

[maygra.livejournal.com]

I shouldn't have said anything so, I'm just going to leave this:

I, for one am glad you did it and can't wait to see it, and will be, no doubt, enthralled an oohing an awing and possible even reinvigorated by the C/V love even though I don't write them in any way that you really want to read them...

But I'm guessing you knew that.

[sisabet.livejournal.com]

EEP! Westerns are not liked? I love Westerns - one of the most exciting points of my year was watching Deadwood and finding out it was renewed. I'm vidding Deadwood for Vividcon, actually. I think. I hope. I have a song...it is kind of a departure for me and at this point that is a good thing.

Escapade is one of the cons I don't attend (like every other con but VVC actually) so I can't comment on negativity in the audience or reaction or anything because I have never been there. I only got comment cards my first vid (they discontinued them last year) and while the tone of some of them threw me, the fact that they were cards and I could stack them according to box checked made up for that (I love nothing more than making piles of stuff- I have a thing) made up for any negativity. I still have a pile of cards that I am not certain exactly what they say as the writing is indecipherable. That is kind of exciting, because they could be saying ANYTHING! There could be directions to buried treasure on those cards.

I am very nervous about my current vid as well. Tiny fandom, very few vids and my source quality varies from ep to ep. Not being there helps, I think, with that nervousness.

but I'd love to think that the vid itself will be judged by its worth -- good or bad -- and not the fandom

Well there is always VVC - I've been pimped to so many fandoms there that it just isn't funny. See, that is the side effect of a wonderful weekend of vids, you get an intro into so many things you had never seen/did not know you were interested in (like how many people watched "Miracles" after Darkness, Darkness?)

[gwyn-r.livejournal.com]

I found the way a lot of people shined on Blue on Black last year at VVC to be kind of sad -- I don't think, unfortunately, that the audience is any more receptive there to specific themes than they are at any other con. The two big ones that get the full disdain shine-on are Westerns and cop shows unless they have a supernatural element. I'd hoped that Deadwood, being an HBO show, and thus different, would go over better and that VVC people were more open, but they're not, not really. People just seem to really dislike general non-buddy cop/crime shows and Westerns in fandom.

The comment sheets basically disappeared last year -- they were done (a different style) and the person who took them promised to type them up by March, but then disappeared. So no one saw them (and I myself avoid them like the plague, because I just have no use for the ingrained nastiness, plus? They're not even helpful when they aren't bitching). I'm pretty sure they're still around though... if you still wanted them.

I don't think I'd take this vid to VVC any more than I would feel good about Escapade. For one, it's crap, I just don't know yet how MUCH of a crap vid it is, and for another, I just don't feel good about having it up against strong vids, especially in such a difficult theme to get people to warm to. It's just that Escapade as a con vid show has changed a lot in a way I don't like much, but I feel like I have to bring *something* since I've been going for 11 years, and all of those, I brought a vid or was part of a group that brought one. I don't know how to go without a vid! Even a crappy one that would be disdained if it was the best vid ever made.

[sisabet.livejournal.com]

I found the way a lot of people shined on Blue on Black last year at VVC to be kind of sad -- I don't think, unfortunately, that the audience is any more receptive there to specific themes than they are at any other con. The two big ones that get the full disdain shine-on are Westerns and cop shows unless they have a supernatural element. I'd hoped that Deadwood, being an HBO show, and thus different, would go over better and that VVC people were more open, but they're not, not really. People just seem to really dislike general non-buddy cop/crime shows and Westerns in fandom.

See, I thought all of those vids were well-received actually. "Blue on Black" is the reason I watched Deadwood. If I had never seen that vid, I never would have become interested in the show and I never would have bugged Killa about it mercilessly until she provided me with episodes from that show. I thought that both "Big Red Boat" and "Blue Skies for Everyone" were perfect examples of setting up and explaining a small fandom to a larger crowd, ie "This is my show. This is why I love these guys. My show is exactly like this." and I was charmed by both. Maybe it is a matter of perception for me. I tend to think when I like/am interested in a vid that everyone is as well. But hang on - I think this because I did talk to other people about these vids and yeah - positive response. There are just so many vids to talk about publically, though, that we can't spend as much time as we like on any and every con there will be a few that do - by necessity's sake - dominate a lot of the conversation because they are just so very ground-breaking. Like Darkness, Darkness.

My impression w/ VVC is that it is much more open to gen vids (audience-wise) than Escapade - in fact the vids the entire con seems to talk about are usually gen vids - but VVC seems more open to complexity in the vids - the vids are being made for an audience of people with a certain sophistication/expectation from the vidder. Perhaps at Escapade many in the audience just want to see shiny pictures of the boys they love doing stuff to music? Not a *wrong* impulse, certainly, but not the predominant one at VVC.

That was a problem at Slayage - a lot of the more complex vids kind of lost the audience because they were still in the "Oh look! Buffy! Music!" stage. It is all about baby-steps.

[gwyn-r.livejournal.com]

Oh, I hope I don't sound like I'm trying to be all contentious ("No! Let me have my snit!") because I'm not, but I think a lot of it is who you have contact with and how many people you have contact with. I was listening to a lot of the people around me at VVC and later reading con reports, and so many people just "uck, Western"ed Killa's stunning vid that it angered me. I don't think the VVC audience is really anymore open in terms of genres than other fannish audiences, just that it's not all slash oriented.

OTOH, Escapade used to be wayyyy more open than it is becoming, or at least, before the vocal nasty minority seemed to sweep in (this is all in that post, btw, that I linked to that I wrote last year after the con). It was the gold standard of con vid shows. It just seems to be turning into a burden at times, for those of us who have gone to it for years, because the limitations imposed by the audience seem to be growing narrower and narrower each year. You can have the slashiest vid ever, and someone will still whine, where's the slash? if they aren't into your fandom, and then gripe about it in con reports afterwards. Or worse, call you names. The Escapade vid show moved past baby steps years ago, decades, maybe, but the new people coming in haven't taken the steps and are trying to punish people for their not being up to speed, people who've participated for years.

[tzikeh.livejournal.com]

Hm. I don't know who you were hearing from, but I heard nothing but good stuff w/r/t Blue on Black from all kinds of fans at VVC last year. I certainly loved it and you know I'm not a big fan of Westerns. I do think the people at VividCon are much more open to vids of all genres, not just the fannish het/gen/slash categories but also all different types of television shows and movies.

Of course you're likely to believe me biased. ;)

and in reference to:

for instance, I wanted to do a Hornblower vid, but I know better than to bring a vid centered on Horatio and Pellew to the Archie-obsessed fans that predominate HH fandom

ARGH don't let the fact that there are more Archie fans stop you from making or showing this vid! Are you crazy? You would deny the H/P fans a little bit of joy? We don't get much!

[morgandawn.livejournal.com]

the other half of the rumour is that the comment sheets will also be "up" this weekend. Up where, I have no idea.....

[destina.livejournal.com]

I know better than to bring a vid centered on Horatio and Pellew

Ooooh. If you make that vid, I will bring you cookies and lemonade, and I promise to squeal rather loudly. *g*

[tzikeh.livejournal.com]

Not to hijack Gwyn's lj or anything, but you should be on the lookout for a tiny little package, Des.

[destina.livejournal.com]

Whee! You are so awesome. I'm breaking out my Sonny icon for you. Thank you so much. :D

[morgandawn.livejournal.com]

I heard a rumour that we might hear something about how to upload a vid for Escapade by this weekend.

[murielperun.livejournal.com]

You're a terrific vidder. I don't suppose people say that enough. Feedback in fandom has basically disappeared these days except among close friends. But we create things because we can't not do it, right? Ultimately, we do it for ourselves.

[gwyn-r.livejournal.com]

Ack, I think, yes and no. I mean, I make the things I want to see (mostly 'cause no one else will make 'em for me!) and I make the things I enjoy, but these days so much of the experience is tied in to either con shows or recruitment that I would probably not make the vid without the intended audience. I made this because I love Mag 7, but I also needed to have a slash vid to bring to Escapade, and this seemed the most likely for a number of reasons internally. The external factor is that people are crappy about Westerns... so it's discouraging to the do the work, feel finished, yet know that... it probably is meaningless for the most part beyond finishing an idea you have in your head.

For me fandom is 99% about participation. If there's no participation and meeting of minds and getting to know and sharing, I'm just not inclined to produce, I suppose. I think that makes me very weird, but that's how it is. I can have a fandom in my own little head and never do the work, if there isn't a larger base to share with. (BTW, are you going to be there by any chance? Would love the opportunity to meet you and talk.)

[murielperun.livejournal.com]

Yes, I hear you about the meeting of minds. I do miss that. My fanfic is all published in zines these days, and no one ever gives LOCs for zine stories anymore. So I often feel as if I've sent the stories out into a void. Only my friends give me comments. But when I'm done with a story, and it satisfies me, I do feel good about it. More comments from readers would be wonderful, but...

That said, I guess that vidding is more a performance type art than writing, and when you see vids in a public forum with other people, it must be disappointing not to get much feedback. People are definitely funny about westerns, too, and not a lot of folks know M7 (myself included--don't know M7 but I'm not weird about westerns
;-).

And, yes, I will be at Escapade! I'm arriving on Thursday, I hope. Let's plan to meet up.

[kadymae.livejournal.com]

Gwyn,

Whenever you get a completely shit ass ignorant mean spirited comment, turn it into toilet paper. Or, hand them off to me and I'll do the (dis)honors.

I mean, jeebus-cripes, I'm 510% "meh" about Stargate but even I can appreciate a well constructed vid in that fandom.

I mean, yeah, Escapde *is* mainly a slash con, but a good het or gen vid is still a good vid, and I'd rather have a vid like Melina's Bawdiatbaba (which pimped me into the Shield) or Jo's Band of Brothers vid (which was everything I loved about that show) than another OMG awful Beecher/Keller vid set to a boy-band or r&b love song.

[gwyn-r.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I think that's the saddest part -- that people just close off to the possibility of discovery. I know people who always thought they hated Westerns who found out they loved Mag 7 or Deadwood and were surprised (or Tombstone or...) But I just wish that the people who aren't open would shut their yaps.

[sisabet.livejournal.com]

Dude - that is it. You just have to let the people that can't get it (and won't ever get) stop raining on your parade. Vids to Western-themed fandoms do recruit people. There are fans of that show that do appreciate these vids and love you forever for doing them.

So what is JaneDoe only wants to see fandom x? She isn't gonna like anything that isn't that fandom and she isn't gonna like a lot of good vids and that's fine. Would you want to make a vid she does like?

[dine.livejournal.com]

I'm sorry the sucktastic people's opinions apparently override those of the rest of us quieter folks - I have no expertise, and sometimes saying "I liked this" seems like it might not be enough. But I loved your Keen Eddie vid last year, and look forward to men on horses this year.

hopefully you will continue to vid, and to share those vids with us (and some day soon I'll get my act together and actually send payment for your vids - I do want them, I'm just perpetually disorganized)

[gwyn-r.livejournal.com]

I think unfortunately the sucky people are growing in number, but the big part is the genre difficulties. Westerns just really do not get good audience at fan cons. I'd actually thought when we brought Soul for Every Cowboy a few years ago, that people would be all "oooo, who's THAT?" Instead it was mostly sniffing disdain, with a few happy Mag 7 fans sprinkled in the audience.

No hurry on the discs -- and hey, now there'll be a new M7 vid as well. Not a good one, but one.

[kassrachel.livejournal.com]

I'm really sorry that you've experienced mean crappy people taking over Escapade. This may be one of those places where because I don't vid, I have an entirely different con experience than you do -- my experience of Escapade is purely about seeing friends and talking wildly in panels (usually meta panels -- I seem to get a real buzz off of fannish meta when it's happening in-person). And, okay, the vid show hasn't been my favorite thing at Escapade the last year or two, but that has way more to do with how sleep debt dovetails with sensory overload, for me...

Anyway, for what it's worth, I'm quite looking forward to the Escapade vid show, and to seeing your vid! I don't know bupkis about M7 (except that it's a Western *g*) but I'm starting to feel like I understand vids a little better, so even if I can't appreciate your vid as an expression of the source text, I suspect I'll enjoy it purely on its...um...viddiness? Vid nature? Viditude? :-)

[gwyn-r.livejournal.com]

I think viditude is a good one -- we should add that to the next edition of Webster's New World College! I think there's a lot of pressure on the vid show that makes it a larger looming experience for a vidder, and it takes over the rest of the con for us. Plus, I have to add the fact of the work as part of the vid comm -- in the end, it's impossible for me to separate all of that from the growing sense of hostility. I actually have this theory that most of the really shitty people are in the overflow room -- they're talking, they're in and out, they're not there for the vids. I am becoming more and more convinced of it, and also, they don't hear me warning them sternly not to take out their frustrations on vidders through nasty comment sheets, and just being criticial without anything constructive or useful behind it. I wish we could quarantine those people from the vidders, but I saw a lot of hurt feelings this year I couldn't salve and I'm just... angry about it. And knowing that by doing Mag 7, I've gone and just set myself up for it this year, cretinous half-wit that I am. ;-)

[ixchel55.livejournal.com]

OK, I'm just really starting to get into vids (I guess it's because I just finally have a computer and connection with enough speed to make it not an agonizing night-long process to download), but I certainly sympathize with the WTF? attitude about people who disrespect other's work simply because it's not their own view. That's just rude and narrow-minded.

I know I'm definitely in the minority when I say I prefer Horatio/Bush, but that doesn't mean I don't appreciate a good Pellew or Archie story, and even if I didn't, I'd simply not read them.

I, for one, don't get anime at all but I certainly know that tons of other people do and I would never insult them by calling their opinions worthless or wrong.

I hope I'm objective enough to appreciate anything that's well done whether it's my dish of choice or not. kadymae is right; try to take their piss-ant little narrow-minded attitudes for what they are: not fit to wipe your ass with.

And just for the record - something with Chris and Vin in it - never a bad thing!

[gwyn-r.livejournal.com]

I love Bush too -- I never had anything much against Archie, but the Archie fans own this fandom, and they're not especially... well, you know. When I first started really getting in HH on film, I asked my friends, "Um, is it wrong to be in love with Pellew?" Because the familiar cry (to my ears) of big/old/ugly/meanie/authority figure/bald... all the things I've heard for years about one guy in my pairings were ringing in my ears. (I hear it a lot about Dom, too, in F&F) Looking for Pellew-heavy fic was pretty much like finding a hair in a haystack. I read very little fanfic, so I tend to focus on what I really want to read just because my time is so limited for it, and if given a choice between an Archie story and doing something else I'll need to do, I tend to pick the latter. Some things, though, I'll drop anything for -- especially F&F now.

What I really wish I could do most of all is to isolate the mean people from the vidders at the con. I'd love to have a quarantine room, but sadly, most of the pissiest stuff comes from people who keep themselves anonymous. It's easy to snipe at people behind your camouflage of cowardice, you know?

[kadymae.livejournal.com]

but sadly, most of the pissiest stuff comes from people who keep themselves anonymous. It's easy to snipe at people behind your camouflage of cowardice, you know?

See my icon for proper response to this. ;)

[note to self: Make Gwyn a little "Bitch, Please" card to carry with her at all times.]

[mlyn.livejournal.com]

Why are you going to Escapade again? I hate seeing you get this distraught over something that doesn't, as far as I've been able to tell, have anything to give in return.

BTW, tell ya what: I'll get into vidding, and suck at it, and then you can be content in your knowledge that at least you're better than me. :) Even though you're already better than me at writing, so I don't know why you don't *already* have joy...

[gwyn-r.livejournal.com]

You know, I ask myself that all the time, as fewer and fewer of my friends come to the con. That's really 99% of it, the other percent is the vidding, but that's grown increasingly frustrating. (Or, at least, it's frustrating if you're not into the fandoms du jour such as SG and SV.) but each year more and more friends drop out, citing the other friends who've dropped out, and the cost goes up and the meaner people make more noise than the nicer people... and it gets less tempting, especially when it's rainy and icky in SoCal, so you can't even hope for warm weather and palm trees.

Habit, and vacation... habit. I keep hoping it will be a better place to participate if I try to participate, but with some things, it's useless. But I've never self-defined as a slash fan only, so I maybe don't belong there, and I'm also more open to things outside my main interest. I like having a con to go to, but I really don't like how limiting a lot of people are making the experience.

[valarltd.livejournal.com]

I sympathize. I vid in fandoms I love that NOBODY takes seriously any more. You almost can't make a serious Star Wars Trilogy vid these days without mockery.

I dread what will happen if I ever find the right song for Apollo/Starbuck slash.

I didn't know "Miracles" but watching "Darkness, Darkness" inspired me to get hold of it and watch it. Fabulous!

(I'd like a good "Blade Runner" vid. One that does for it what Diana Williams did for TPM with "Come what may." Because Blade Runner can put me to sleep faster than any other movie or novel)

Is Escapade so dreadful? Should I rethink sending them "Renegades, Rebels and Rogues" which is multifandom bad boys and "The Gallows" which is PotC?

[gwyn-r.livejournal.com]

I think there are pockets of dreadfulness at Escapade for the vid show at least. I don't think it's as bad if you're not there and if you basically avoid reading con reports afterwards. I'm convinced that a lot of the really bad things are coming from people who hang in the overflow room -- they aren't there to enjoy the vids, really, and I think they think nothing of lashing out at vidders for not catering to their whims, as they have no emotional investment. But I don't believe all the people are dreadful, at all -- many of them are there at the show for the vids, and they care.

[zebra363.livejournal.com]

I dread what will happen if I ever find the right song for Apollo/Starbuck slash.

If you ever do, please let me know. I'd *love* to see an Apollo/Starbuck vid! I'll watch it and sing your praises!

[maubast.livejournal.com]

I can't comment on most of your post (sorry!) as I've never been to Escapade and probably never will (Too far away - I live on the East Coast).

I can say this - I hope that you know how much I appreciate you and your vidding. (That said, I know this post (by you) wasn't a call to tell you that, okay?)

I have never understood why people have to be so mean-spirited. I mean, I'm not saying they shouldn't give constructive crit if the vidder (or author or whatever) asks for it, but why be mean about it?

I've started vidding. I've finished a Harry Potter vid, a Hard Core Logo Vid and a Fast & Furious vid. I don't think I'll ever be a vidder of your caliber, but I've enjoyed what I've done so far. I admit, I wasn't going to put them online for downloading, but I thought someone would enjoy them. And they're not the worst I've ever seen (in fandom) either. *g* That said though, I would never be mean to someone just because I didn't like what they'd done.

And feedback? Non-existant for the most part.

Wow, I'm not sure what the point of this was... sorry to blather on.

[gwyn-r.livejournal.com]

I'm so excited to hear that you gave vidding a try! Did you put them up at a public site, or is there a password and such required?

Yeah, feedback on vids is even smaller than for fic. I think people just really have gotten used to the drive-by consumer culture fandom has become on the net, and they feel no real need to participate. Gimme gimme, and move on. I think that's why I'd like con shows like Escapade to be more inclusive or more open-minded and why I'm resisting the changes so much -- I feel like the con shows are the last bastion of fannish participation and involvement for vids, and the last place where vidders can get a sense of response to their vids. And so I think the loss of a good generalist show like Escapade would be felt by many of us.

[maubast.livejournal.com]

I put them up on a public site (one of mine):

http://vids.ravenshadow.net

I wanted to password protect but didn't know how, so... :)

feedback on vids is even smaller than for fic.

Oh gosh, yes... I've got over 400 hits on my vid webpage, but only... hmmm... maybe 6-7 comments, and all but two of those have been via my LJ.

You're right, I think, about the 'gimme' culture. A real shame (that folks are that way). :(

(And I love your icon!)

[keiko-kirin.livejournal.com]

Not that this is much comfort, but the idea of a Mag7 vid from you is the best news I've heard all year (okay, only 11 days into the year so far, but still!). Seriously, though: Chris/Vin + Gwyn vid = all good. There is no bad here. And folks who don't like Westerns can take a nice long stroll off a short pier, because they are missing out on the joys of low-slung gun-belts, boots with spurs, men riding on shiny horses, guns guns and more guns, dust and dirt and sweat, and more homoeroticism than you can shake a stick at. Feh, I say to those folks.

the other percent is the vidding, but that's grown increasingly frustrating. (Or, at least, it's frustrating if you're not into the fandoms du jour such as SG and SV.)

Well, FWIW, I don't think being in a supposed fandom-du-jour helps much at Escapade (speaking as one who's worked on SG vids which premiered there). It didn't do us any favors when we made a right fandom/wrong guy vid, or a right fandom/wrong pairings vid. I don't know what's happened, but there was a moment when the vid show at Escapade stopped being fun, at least for my friends who are all damn fine vidders. The comments forms are part of it -- a quicker way to suck the joy out of the entire process I can't imagine, no matter how well-meaning the original idea was -- but not the sole cause. I think that as more vids get made, the more intolerant, impatient, and frustrated the Escapade audience member becomes when a vid isn't in that person's specific fandom and isn't made to that person's specific desires.

I like having a con to go to, but I really don't like how limiting a lot of people are making the experience.

I used to like having a con to go to. Once February rolls around and everyone disappears for a few days, I will probably miss not going this year. But for the same cost (or less), I can visit the friends I miss and not have to worry about the damn vid show. Which is a plus.

[gwyn-r.livejournal.com]

Killa gave me some amazing feedback last night and now I know where it's problematical and where it's good, and so I feel way better about it now. I can whip it into shape enough to show Jo this weekend and hopefully she won't laugh in my face. ;-)

This is the worst part of how much the con experience has changed, that it's not motivating enough for people to come out... as more and more people stay behind, more and more people stay behind next time. And then I lose on my chance to have dicussions! And room parties! And house of meat! Waaaah... I am really just feeling sooo sad about not doing our group house of meat this year. And no vids from you guys? I hope you'll at least send one down, and then I can sniff over it.

[cathexys.livejournal.com]

i wish i had something constructive to add to this or the new post...i don't watch many vids, b/c i am not a very visual person and would have no idea how to give feedback; i have never been to escapade (or any other con) and only remember your disappointment last year; i wonder how much has to do with actual changes in fandom and how much with your personal moment; i.e., i totally see how you describe the lack of feedback and yet the large scale interaction seems to me bigger on LJ (most probable much more superficial but more nontheless). i wonder whether vids fall in the novel category, where the ultimately "payoff" is very low in proportion to the work put in (as opposed to a small ficlet that gets immediate response)

maybe the long in-depth LOCs have gone down b/c we're becoming an instant gratification fan culture???

just thinking out loud here, since i know way too little about 'old-style' fandom and next to nothing about vidding. and just saying how sad i am that you are so unhappy about it, b/c ultimately this should be out happy place, right???

[gwyn-r.livejournal.com]

I'm not really sad or down so much as disappointed and expecting more of that. I kind of know I'm setting myself up, in a way.

I think that yeah, this instant gratification culture has just grown exponentially as fandom has -- it's simple to access, it's out there for everyone to see... there's no impetus for involvement or even simple kindness, if you can remain faceless, get what you want, and leave. The culture is all for the quick consumer now. YOu have no work to do, but you can get and get for free, so when you go to something like a con vid show, you think it's all supposed to be about you getting and getting for free and you can say and do what you want, regardless of what people have done and how hard they've worked. Those people should be ashamed, but the truth is, they don't know better. They've been taught to be selfish, and they have no real social skills or understanding that it isn't all about them. It's just how it is these days.